Get out of the way!!!

[BFLOCOP]

So has anybody gone and looked at the marvelous rewatered canal slip under the skyway? The sooner that preservationists and Buffalo News editorialists realize that there is no market for this type of "tourism" the better off we'll be. I drive by this thing everyday to get to Police HQ and never see anybody there. By the way that little casino inside a tin box on Michigan is packed everyday. That should show you that it is a very vocal minority that holds things up for years. I wish all these projects could just go to referendum.

[Sylvan]

The weather is a little chilly this time of year silly!

Also, once the Aud and Skyway are gone, and with a new Dome and convention center in the first ward are finished, the new casino/hotel is finished, that little canal slip will be even better if extended further.

Maybe your just irritated because you havent found anyone floating in it yet?

[BFLOCOP]

The weather is a little chilly this time of year silly!

Also, once the Aud and Skyway are gone, and with a new Dome and convention center in the first ward are finished, the new casino/hotel is finished, that little canal slip will be even better if extended further.

Maybe your just irritated because you havent found anyone floating in it yet?
No, I just feel that this is a minute market that we cater to too much. And silly, its chilly a lot around here!

[Sylvan]

No, I just feel that this is a minute market that we cater to too much. And silly, its chilly a lot around here!
By minute market do you mean, something gets popular and a few people want it, then if it gets done no one cares about it anymore within a very short period of time?

I think things can be different and work.

[BFLOCOP]

By minute market do you mean, something gets popular and a few people want it, then if it gets done no one cares about it anymore within a very short period of time?

I think things can be different and work.
By minute I mean 99.9 percent of people don't care about the slip. You'd get more traffic by opening a Dairy Queen there.

[300miles]

I drive by this thing everyday to get to Police HQ and never see anybody there.
Have you considered that may be because it's not even open yet, and still completely fenced off to the public?

[HipKat]

Have you considered that may be because it's not even open yet, and still completely fenced off to the public?
Any pics of this thing?


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/223/479284493_cf38ff54ab.jpg

Look at this picture, then imagine the skyway not in it......

[Effigy]

Also, once the Aud and Skyway are gone, and with a new Dome and convention center in the first ward are finished <snip>

I shall surely be long dead by then.

[BFLOCOP]

Have you considered that may be because it's not even open yet, and still completely fenced off to the public?
Not sure if its opened but the fence around everything was gone today.

[300miles]

If the fence is down, it must have been taken down just recently. They haven't announced that it's open to the public yet, so I wouldn't expect anyone to be down there. Plus I don't think anyone expects crowds of people to show up without any additional attractions that are still under developement.

I'm curious to check it out now though. Thanks for the update!

[BFLOCOP]

If the fence is down, it must have been taken down just recently. They haven't announced that it's open to the public yet, so I wouldn't expect anyone to be down there. Plus I don't think anyone expects crowds of people to show up without any additional attractions that are still under developement.

I'm curious to check it out now though. Thanks for the update!
I love Buffalo history, so I am excited to see it, but call me cynical I just dont think most of the people will share my enthusiasm.

[Achbek1]

I admire BFLOCOP's no nonsense outlook on things. He shares many of my ideas.

Hey BFLOCOP, I'll protect you if you protect me from the rotten tomatoes people will throw at us for not falling for the whole preservationist schtick and for not wishing that Buffalo could take a time machine back to 1890.

I'll buy your the first Blizzard at Dairy Queen too.

[Sylvan]

Any pics of this thing?


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/223/479284493_cf38ff54ab.jpg

Look at this picture, then imagine the skyway not in it......


No skyway, no Aud, and no state building (whatever the name is?). That slip could be extended.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

I admire BFLOCOP's no nonsense outlook on things. He shares many of my ideas.

Hey BFLOCOP, I'll protect you if you protect me from the rotten tomatoes people will throw at us for not falling for the whole preservationist schtick and for not wishing that Buffalo could take a time machine back to 1890.

I'll buy your the first Blizzard at Dairy Queen too.
Dairy Queen. Excellent. I'll make a special trip out there, because god knows you can't get Dairy Queen just anywhere, right? Throw in a Taco Bell, and I'll sell my home and move as close as I can.

Because that would be sooooooooooooo special.:rolleyes:

[Achbek1]

Dairy Queen. Excellent. I'll make a special trip out there, because god knows you can't get Dairy Queen just anywhere, right? Throw in a Taco Bell, and I'll sell my home and move as close as I can.

Because that would be sooooooooooooo special.:rolleyes:

The whole damn issue is certain special interest groups appropriating "preciousness" or "historicness" [sic] to just about anything and everything, whether there is inherent value or not.

The fact of the matter is, BUFFALO AIN'T A TOURIST TOWN! SUR-PRIIIIIIISE! The rest of the country doesn't even THINK of Buffalo when they are planning their "tourist" vacations. We are a podunk town that is on the DECLINE and we are being overtaken by poverty and blight! No one cares about how "unique" the strip of land wherever is...

And, yeah, there's a bunch of people packing that damn casino every night... But who are those people? Are they tourists? Hell no! They are the POVERTY STRICKEN PEOPLE who are, maybe you could even say, "victims" of Buffalo's ****ty economy! Just ask Darius Pridgen, he's even commented on this.

I just had 50 more students tell me they plan on MOVING OUT OF BUFFALO because they feel there is nothing left here. Note: A few students even mentioned that (gasp) they DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT HISTORIC stuff... :eek:

That should tell you more than anything...

Enough with this "preciousness" ****!

And the main reason why PEOPLE ARE MOVING OUT OF THE AREA IS BECAUSE THERE ARE NO JOBS!

People will move to places where there are JOBS. They don't move because a town is "pretty" or "historic." They move for jobs...

total, when I box with you, it's with fluffy pink gloves.

[HipKat]

No skyway, no Aud, and no state building (whatever the name is?). That slip could be extended.
Always wondered what that was.....

[Achbek1]

The sooner that preservationists and Buffalo News editorialists realize that there is no market for this type of "tourism" the better off we'll be.

Yep, the Buffalo News editorialists are Part of the Problem because many of them perpetuate that damn elitist, close minded way of thinking. "Oh, let's worship the past and wear our little rose colored glasses and by the wave of our magic wand Buffalo will become this upscale, quaint touristy city and everything will soon be just GREAT. Then, our economy will just BOOM if we block anything and everything NEW from opening... But people will be clamoring to come to Buffalo to look at all of our grande ole' historic stuff..." "...What was that? Oh, I didn't see the thousands of people on Welfare and Medicaid that make up a growing percentage of the area... What was that? Oh, I didn't just see the thousands of newly educated students leaving the area? What was that? Oh, I didn't just see the Census statistics of how frighteningly high our poverty levels are... And I'm ignoring the soon to be released Economic Census statistics too when they say how many businesses we lost... I will live in my own little bubble and force everyone to bend to MY will so that I can live in my own little idealistic world while everyone else suffers... Now, excuse me while I go and yell at suburbanites for being evil, block some more new busineses from opening because the buildings will look too ugly and maybe I'll even go mess with Children's Hospital some more while I feel like it too..."

(Locks doors before total comes at me with her machine gun.)

[mikewrona]

Yep, the Buffalo News editorialists are Part of the Problem because many of them perpetuate that damn elitist, close minded way of thinking. "Oh, let's worship the past and wear our little rose colored glasses and by the wave of our magic wand Buffalo will become this upscale, quaint touristy city and everything will soon be just GREAT. Then, our economy will just BOOM if we block anything and everything NEW from opening... But people will be clamoring to come to Buffalo to look at all of our grande ole' historic stuff..." "...What was that? Oh, I didn't see the thousands of people on Welfare and Medicaid that make up a growing percentage of the area... What was that? Oh, I didn't just see the thousands of newly educated students leaving the area? What was that? Oh, I didn't just see the Census statistics of how frighteningly high our poverty levels are... And I'm ignoring the soon to be released Economic Census statistics too when they say how many businesses we lost... I will live in my own little bubble and force everyone to bend to MY will so that I can live in my own little idealistic world while everyone else suffers... Now, excuse me while I go and yell at suburbanites for being evil, block some more new busineses from opening because the buildings will look too ugly and maybe I'll even go mess with Children's Hospital some more while I feel like it too..."

(Locks doors before total comes at me with her machine gun.)

I'm afraid that the problem is is not anyone being elitist, but in your being unsophisticated and anti-intellectual. Just because you happen to not like things doesn't mean that the whole world agrees with you.

I was at the Adam's Mark Hotel a couple of weeks ago for a dinner. There were 2 bus loads of Japanese tourists checking into the hotel. What in the world do you think those people were here for? Chicken wings, Sabres game,
Bills game, sitting around a bar with a bunch of local narrow minded suburbanites complaining about tourism won't work in this area?

What I'm going to write now is of no interest to you. If you don't believe in tourism, then you simply don't and it isn't worth the time to even discuss it with you and the Buffalo Cop.

National Trust for Historic Preservation:
1. Tourism is big business.
2. Tourism is the thrid biggest retail industry in the country after automobile and supermarket sales.
3. Travel and tourism employs 8 million people nationwide with a $171.4 billion payroll, and tax revenues of $104.9 billion.

Travel Industry Association and Smithsonian Magazine:
1. Well managed tourism improves quality of life.
2. 81% of all tourists who traveled in 2002 have said they have traveled for cultural and historic reasons.
3. 118 million people visited historic sites in the U.S. in 2002
4. The average Historic and Cultural Tourist spends $623 per person per trip compared to $457 for all other travel, excluding transportation costs.
5. The biggest benefit of Cultural and Historic tourism is that the number of travelers is growing every year even to the point where Agricultural Heritage Tourism has become a multi billion dollar industry.

[HipKat]

Tourism?? You mean like pretending we sit on the banks of a natural wonder and our offereing isn't a run down, crime ridden, blown economy, racist (apparently) border city with nothing else to offer besides a viewing area that looks the same is it did in 1947 and a convention center turned into a concrete bunker, errrr, casino with the hotel being the tallest building in the city, all the while looking over at a modern, developed, Canadian site that actually IS a tourist destination and probably the place those Japanese were going to, having taken advantage of Buffalo low air fares, cheap acommodations and quick access to the place???

[Achbek1]

I'm feeling ornery today...


I'm afraid that the problem is is not anyone being elitist, but in your being unsophisticated and anti-intellectual. Just because you happen to not like things doesn't mean that the whole world agrees with you.

I am unsophisticated and anti intellectual? You don't know where I'm coming from and what I do. But if you are equating being PRACTICAL with unsophisticated and anti-intellectual, then go ahead and call me that. If you are quoting the Chronicle of Higher Education then you must also have an interest for or possibly work in higher education. Well, my "unsophisticated and anti-intellectual" self happens to be an "educator." But I do not work in the "ivory tower" area of higher education, I work in a more PRACTICAL venue. I work with people who SEEK EDUCATION TO GET JOBS. And these people are currently at disadvantages because of the lack of job opportunities in Buffalo. If the tourism industry could be promoted so that it might actually EMPLOY people while we are saving all these old buildings, then fine, I'll give you that. But right now there's clearly some major economic problems in the city that clearly outweigh the importance of keeping things pretty and historic.

I was at the Adam's Mark Hotel a couple of weeks ago for a dinner. There were 2 bus loads of Japanese tourists checking into the hotel. What in the world do you think those people were here for? Chicken wings, Sabres game,
Bills game, sitting around a bar with a bunch of local narrow minded suburbanites complaining about tourism won't work in this area?

First of all, thanks for referring to me as a "narrow minded suburbanite." Don't you live in the suburbs too?

And do you have PROOF of what the Japanese tourists were here for? How do you know they weren't here for something related to the Medical Corridor or for something else? After all, the Medical Corridor is something serius and practical and it's thriving in part because of the NEW buildings that are going up.

What I'm going to write now is of no interest to you. If you don't believe in tourism, then you simply don't and it isn't worth the time to even discuss it with you and the Buffalo Cop.

I have a feeling that Buffalo Cop and I both have the same core interests at heart and therefore aren't deserving of any kind of condescending or snide comments. Those core interests that Buffalo Cop and I share are OUR CONCERN FOR THE AVERAGE, EVERY DAY PEOPLE in the region who are SUFFERING RIGHT NOW and who NEED SOME NEW ACTION TO BE TAKEN IN THE AREA. I think Buffalo Cop would agree with me that right now something more accessble and practical would be of better benefit ot the region than some lofty ideal such as "heritage tourism." Sure, I'm not 100% against SOME preservation for tourism, but quite frankly I think it is given WAY too much importance, both in the press and in discussioin around here. The preservation groups are PANDERED TO way too much and quite franky it confuses me.

[bigpoppapuff]

a bit of both...preserve history...promote it and MOVE forward with other projects...instead of talking about things and doing nothing!!!

[BFLOCOP]

No skyway, no Aud, and no state building (whatever the name is?). That slip could be extended.
Yeah we could extend it and then maybe we can store grain on the waterfront. How about we rebuild the whole thing and bury the St Lawrence Seaway? Jobs will follow. Maybe even a couple of Steel Plants. Oh wait that already happened.

Extend it where????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????
Better question why?

[BFLOCOP]

I'm afraid that the problem is is not anyone being elitist, but in your being unsophisticated and anti-intellectual. Just because you happen to not like things doesn't mean that the whole world agrees with you.

I was at the Adam's Mark Hotel a couple of weeks ago for a dinner. There were 2 bus loads of Japanese tourists checking into the hotel. What in the world do you think those people were here for? Chicken wings, Sabres game,
Bills game, sitting around a bar with a bunch of local narrow minded suburbanites complaining about tourism won't work in this area?

What I'm going to write now is of no interest to you. If you don't believe in tourism, then you simply don't and it isn't worth the time to even discuss it with you and the Buffalo Cop.

National Trust for Historic Preservation:
1. Tourism is big business.
2. Tourism is the thrid biggest retail industry in the country after automobile and supermarket sales.
3. Travel and tourism employs 8 million people nationwide with a $171.4 billion payroll, and tax revenues of $104.9 billion.

Travel Industry Association and Smithsonian Magazine:
1. Well managed tourism improves quality of life.
2. 81% of all tourists who traveled in 2002 have said they have traveled for cultural and historic reasons.
3. 118 million people visited historic sites in the U.S. in 2002
4. The average Historic and Cultural Tourist spends $623 per person per trip compared to $457 for all other travel, excluding transportation costs.
5. The biggest benefit of Cultural and Historic tourism is that the number of travelers is growing every year even to the point where Agricultural Heritage Tourism has become a multi billion dollar industry.
Tell me how much of the historic tourism is centered in Washington DC. 80%? What qualifies as a historic site? The Erie Canal, no matter how important to American History, is never going to be a big tourist attraction. It cannot compare to Civil War, or American government sites. We can all post statistics that support our personal points of view, but Achbeck is right, there are more people employed by the snack bar at the casino than there is at the ridiculous re-watered slip. Millions of dollars for old stones that were so important they were buried for half a century. It would be funny if it werent Buffalo.

[Achbek1]

Did anyone else ever stop to think that maybe instead of focusing on ways to make the city better for these (alleged and mythical) tourists, that maybe we should instead be focusing on ways to make the city better for the people who actually live there?

[bigpoppapuff]

Did anyone else ever stop to think that maybe instead of focusing on ways to make the city better for these (alleged and mythical) tourists, that maybe we should instead be focusing on ways to make the city better for the people who actually live there?



that makes way too much sense....stop thinking like that...

we are a tourist mecca...

[Sylvan]

Yeah we could extend it and then maybe we can store grain on the waterfront. How about we rebuild the whole thing and bury the St Lawrence Seaway? Jobs will follow. Maybe even a couple of Steel Plants. Oh wait that already happened.

Extend it where????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????
Better question why?

I dont know, follow the stones.
So the kayaks and paddle boats have a place to go so I lose the urge to run them over in the marina. Line the canal with bars, casinos, and whore houses just like buffalo did when it thrieved. Or did we already replace all that with medical clinics, pharmacies, and porn shops. Just think of the job security with a party town. But Erie County would mess that up too cause they would then build more rehab centers, and prisons and chase the people away again.

[Sylvan]

Did anyone else ever stop to think that maybe instead of focusing on ways to make the city better for these (alleged and mythical) tourists, that maybe we should instead be focusing on ways to make the city better for the people who actually live there?

Okay, I am open to suggestions. I thought people needed jobs, what else do they need? And what is your vision to get these things?

[Achbek1]

Okay, I am open to suggestions. I thought people needed jobs, what else do they need? And what is your vision to get these things?

We need to bring in some REAL jobs in actual industries. We need things like some Fortune 500 companies and/or things that employ large numbers of people and pay respectable salaries. We need some companies that deal with information technology, manufacturing (if those are still around), large firms that deal with all other aspects of business such as logistics and distribution, etc. We already have a great deal of medical facilities and companies related to medical techology.

But unfortunately too often when a company decides to come to Buffalo they are met with some some weird protests or strange requests from the special interest groups. The Health Now building had to incorporate the old Buffalo Gas Works facade into its building to appease the preservationists... But thinking about that now, how practical was that and how much extra work did it require? Bank of America decided to open a new location on Elmwood Avenue yet they are being forced to build a fake second floor, again how much extra work is this going to require?

There have been others, the Elmwood Hotel was met with protest until that finally went away... for whatever reasons. Pano on Elmwood was screamed at and called "evil" for wanting to expand a business that in actuality is probably bringing more foot traffic to the nearby small businesses. The Gates Circle conods were protested because of blocking "the view." What view?

And the things that do exist are criticized for just being IN the suburbs, but had they tried to open in the city they would have been criticized for being "too suburban."

I've said all this tons of times before, so I won't go any further.

By the way, from what I have heard, the rest of the country does laugh at us and think we are nuts.

[Achbek1]

that makes way too much sense....stop thinking like that...

we are a tourist mecca...

I'm gonna start a new movement... And I wanna recruit people to join me in this movement... Trust me, it will be a cool bandwagon to jump on and I'm sure you will all want to follow me...

I call it the GREEN TOP HAT MOVEMENT.

You see, I think that if everyone in the city wore GREEN TOP HATS every other day of the week that it would make Buffalo a great place and improve our economy. If people did this, the tourists would be flocking from miles around to come to Buffalo and see people in their green top hats. Think of all the money we would rake in!

We could take all of the poor and disenfranchised people in Buffalo and give them the biggest top hats to wear. When the tourists come to town, they can go up to the previously unemployed or underemployed people in the big top hats and the tourists could hand the money directly to the formerly poor people.

What? You think my ideas are silly? Are they as silly as thinking that people from all over the world will be flocking to Buffalo to see our old canal?

http://www.thecostumer.com/cfwebstore/images/Costumer%20Images/giant2964THUMB.jpg

[Sylvan]

We need to bring in some REAL jobs in actual industries. We need things like some Fortune 500 companies and/or things that employ large numbers of people and pay respectable salaries. We need some companies that deal with information technology, manufacturing (if those are still around), large firms that deal with all other aspects of business such as logistics and distribution, etc. We already have a great deal of medical facilities and companies related to medical techology.

But unfortunately too often when a company decides to come to Buffalo they are met with some some weird protests or strange requests from the special interest groups. The Health Now building had to incorporate the old Buffalo Gas Works facade into its building to appease the preservationists... But thinking about that now, how practical was that and how much extra work did it require? Bank of America decided to open a new location on Elmwood Avenue yet they are being forced to build a fake second floor, again how much extra work is this going to require?

There have been others, the Elmwood Hotel was met with protest until that finally went away... for whatever reasons. Pano on Elmwood was screamed at and called "evil" for wanting to expand a business that in actuality is probably bringing more foot traffic to the nearby small businesses. The Gates Circle conods were protested because of blocking "the view." What view?

And the things that do exist are criticized for just being IN the suburbs, but had they tried to open in the city they would have been criticized for being "too suburban."

I've said all this tons of times before, so I won't go any further.

By the way, from what I have heard, the rest of the country does laugh at us and think we are nuts.

Thanks Achbek. That is weird, and Ive heard much more too. Its ridiculous!

[Timmy]

And the main reason why PEOPLE ARE MOVING OUT OF THE AREA IS BECAUSE THERE ARE NO JOBS!

People will move to places where there are JOBS. They don't move because a town is "pretty" or "historic." They move for jobs...

total, when I box with you, it's with fluffy pink gloves.

Ashville NC doesnt have any jobs or industry but it is very quaint and historic because the Biltmore Estate is there...and people are moving there, especially those with jobs that allow them to live anywhere

I couldnt disagree more..Buffalo has as much history as Boston or a Philadelphia and while our historic districts may not be as big as say Pittsburgh or Cleveland or other bigger cities...we still have quite a respectable district which prettymuch stretches from Michigan to Niagara.

I couldnt disagree more that culture and history could be major employers for our city

BUT THIS IS THE ISSUE! BUFFALO SAW THE DECLINE OF ITS INDUSTRY WHEN THE WWII FACTORIES STARTED CLOSING AND THEY STARTED PLANNING FOR THE WELLAND CANAL SO THATS ALMOST 60 YEARS AGO.

IF BUFFALO HAD PLANNED THEN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO REINVEST IN FUTURE INDUSTRIAL AND SERVICE INDUSTRIES BUT EVEN TODAY WE CANNOT PRY MONEY WE SHOULD INVEST AWAY FROM ALBANY, UNIONS AND THE TEMPTATION OF PATRONAGE.

HOWEVER BUFFALO IS WELL ON ITS WAY TO FLESHING OUT ITS NEW INDUSTRIES FROM RESEARCH & TECHNOLOGY TO TOURISM AND CULTURE.

IT MAY NOT BE HAPPENING FAST ENOUGH BUT IT IS HAPPENING.

[300miles]

I admire BFLOCOP's no nonsense outlook on things. He shares many of my ideas.

Hey BFLOCOP, I'll protect you if you protect me from the rotten tomatoes people will throw at us for not falling for the whole preservationist schtick and for not wishing that Buffalo could take a time machine back to 1890.

I'll buy your the first Blizzard at Dairy Queen too.
Achbek... Sorry, but you make no sense.

In most every thread you rant about the need to tear down old buildings and build NEW buildings in Buffalo.

Well guess what... that's EXACTLY what's happening at CanalSide. They are tearing down the Aud. They are tearing down the Donovan Building. They will be developing new shopping areas, new office areas, and new residential areas. All of it will be NEW NEW NEW!!

And yet... you complain.

You complain when people try to preserve buildings.
You complain when people try to tear them down.
You complain there is no New development.
You complain that New development isn't what YOU want.


Seriously.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

I admire BFLOCOP's no nonsense outlook on things. He shares many of my ideas.

Hey BFLOCOP, I'll protect you if you protect me from the rotten tomatoes people will throw at us for not falling for the whole preservationist schtick and for not wishing that Buffalo could take a time machine back to 1890.

I'll buy your the first Blizzard at Dairy Queen too.

Sheesh! You have such issues about preservation, Achbek1!!!!

I'm pretty excited. I'm going to make it a point of leaving my home way out in Williamsville to visit.

I spent most of my life in SoCal, where no one has any interest in the past. And so everything just slipped away, and now we have freeways and strip malls and big box stores galore.

So excuse me when I see a piece of the actual past and get excited! And people who want to preserve it!!! Incredible. Now I'm way happy!!!

I think you might be happier in a place like Southern California. The two of you have similiar mind sets. Bye now to strawberry fields, plowed over for homes. And orange groves. Ditto.

The quality of life there sort of sucks, for those who pay attention to those things anymore. But there are jobs. Costco is always hiring. Ummm.....Hooray?

P.S. Plus Taco Bell is hiring too. Like usual. That should make you very happy. Nice to know there are so many jobs......

[Sylvan]

Ashville NC doesnt have any jobs or industry but it is very quaint and historic because the Biltmore Estate is there...and people are moving there, especially those with jobs that allow them to live anywhere

I couldnt disagree more..Buffalo has as much history as Boston or a Philadelphia and while our historic districts may not be as big as say Pittsburgh or Cleveland or other bigger cities...we still have quite a respectable district which prettymuch stretches from Michigan to Niagara.

I couldnt disagree more that culture and history could be major employers for our city

BUT THIS IS THE ISSUE! BUFFALO SAW THE DECLINE OF ITS INDUSTRY WHEN THE WWII FACTORIES STARTED CLOSING AND THEY STARTED PLANNING FOR THE WELLAND CANAL SO THATS ALMOST 60 YEARS AGO.

IF BUFFALO HAD PLANNED THEN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO REINVEST IN FUTURE INDUSTRIAL AND SERVICE INDUSTRIES BUT EVEN TODAY WE CANNOT PRY MONEY WE SHOULD INVEST AWAY FROM ALBANY, UNIONS AND THE TEMPTATION OF PATRONAGE.

HOWEVER BUFFALO IS WELL ON ITS WAY TO FLESHING OUT ITS NEW INDUSTRIES FROM RESEARCH & TECHNOLOGY TO TOURISM AND CULTURE.

IT MAY NOT BE HAPPENING FAST ENOUGH BUT IT IS HAPPENING.
I dont get it Tim. Research and Technology is leaving? Why would tourism and culture push them away?

Little Peter wants a career in green engineering, and Mary likes nano tech. So, they come to the university and have a kewl "semi" historically cultured, easy to get around, place to hang out while they study. They get their papesr, have choice of jobs, and find a reasonable condo on a little river or harbor close to all the sports and entertainment. And decent medical fascilities, etc. Their families visit, they tell their frends, numbers go up, investors want some action, and the cascading continues.

Sounds easy when Im typing, Im not good at numbers like Lefty, but where am I wrong?

[Achbek1]

I'm sure our increasing crime and 52 murders will be a huge draw to tourists.

As HipKat and Buffalo Cop pointed out, we are in reality not even a blip on the radar as a tourist destination for out of towners.

If people come to Buffalo from far away, they will probably be here for something that is business related, as in related to some of our already existing businesses... They will then say, "Oh and while we are here, we might as well go look at..." So, in reality, the tourist stuff is secondary and not primary on the list.

This board needs a voice with a different point of view. I choose to be that voice. I'm painfully practical and willing to say things that maybe others are not willing to say because they don't want to offend the majority whose thinking has been deemed as the "intellectual" way to think.

Buffalo is a suffering city, plain and simple. The poverty stricken population is growing fast and in reality it's growing faster than our tourism industry and faster than the few and far between new businesses are coming in. This is also New York State which means people are coming here for social service programs faster and more often than people are coming her for tourism or jobs. Our County budget has a large chunk dedicated to SOCIAL SERVICES, if you don't believe me go to the library and look at copies of previous years budgets. Meanwhile, when the economy gets worse the crime gets worse. And part of the reason why some parts of the city have higher crime is because of the lack of availabe educational or employment opportunities.

I hate to be a wet blanket, but that's the truth. If the bottom falls out, then we will all go down with it.

I just don't think it's practical to be focusing on lofty ideals right now. We need more reality based thinking. We are in dire socioenomomic straits, look at the statistics... But some people have actually answered that by saying, "Oh, the statistics lie... Buffalo is not acutally a poor city..." If you want to pull the blinders over your eyes and pretend this is New England, then fine suit yourself but that's not reality...

And nothing I say is for my own benefit... I have a roof over my head and food in my refridgerator and my husband and I have jobs. I thank God every day for that. But there are people out there who are struggling financially and socioeconomically. I work every day with people who have lost jobs and who are back in school to re-educate themselves. Many of these people are from industries that have had huge layoffs, such as manufacturing. I also get a lot of people who lost their "white collar" jobs due to outsourcing such as the many banking customer service industries, etc.

So maybe my line of work makes me more of a pessimist or "realist," depending on the view you take. But that's what I see every day. I see the results of Buffalo's dying economy and uneven economic opportunities.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

I'm sure our increasing crime and 52 murders will be a huge draw to tourists.

As HipKat and Buffalo Cop pointed out, we are in reality not even a blip on the radar as a tourist destination for out of towners.

If people come to Buffalo from far away, they will probably be here for something that is business related, as in related to some of our already existing businesses... They will then say, "Oh and while we are here, we might as well go look at..." So, in reality, the tourist stuff is secondary and not primary on the list,.

This board needs a voice with a different point of view. I choose to be that voice. I'm painfully practical and willing to say things that maybe others are not willing to say because they don't want to offend the majority whose thinking has been deemed as the "intellectual" way to think.

Buffalo is a suffering city, plain and simple. The poverty stricken population is growing fast and in reality it's growing faster than our tourism industry and faster than the few and far between new businesses are coming in. This is also New York State which means people are coming here for social service programs faster and more often than people are coming her for tourism or jobs. Our County budget has a large chunk dedicated to SOCIAL SERVICES, if you don't believe me go to the library and look at copies of previous years budgets. Meanwhile, when the economy gets worse the crime gets worse. And part of the reason why some parts of the city have higher crime is because of the lack of availabe educational or employment opportunities.

I hate to be a wet blanket, but that's the truth. If the bottom falls out, then we will all go down with it.

I just don't think it's practical to be focusing on lofty ideals right now. We need more reality based thinking. We are in dire socioenomomic straits, look at the statistics... But some people have actually answered that by saying, "Oh, the statistics lie... Buffalo is not acutally a poor city..." If you want to pull the blinders over your eyes and pretend this is New England, then fine suit yourself but that's not reality...

And nothing I say is for my own benefit... I have a roof over my head and food in my refridgerator and my husband and I have jobs. I thank God every day for that. But there are people out there who are struggling financially and socioeconomically. I work every day with people who have lost jobs and who are back in school to re-educate themselves. Many of these people are from industries that have had huge layoffs, such as manufacturing. I also get a lot of people who lost their "white collar" jobs due to outsourcing such as the many banking customer service industries, etc.

So maybe my line of work makes me more of a pessimist or "realist," depending on the view you take. But that's what I see every day. I see the results of Buffalo's dying economy and uneven economic opportunities.


I don't think anyone doubts your motives. We know they come from a good place.

It's your absolute determination to turn Buffalo and its metro area into yet another "geography from nowhere" that baffles me.

Why bother? That's not going to attrack new business and new people. And that's what this area needs in order to revive.

You could fill the entire canal area with Dollar Tree stores. And some people would have jobs (sort of). But what does that say about the future?

Not much, I think.

[speaker]

Sounds like you just came on the Buffalo scene, achbek. You probably didn't see Buffalo at its lowest, but, believe me, Buffalo is well into a renaissance.

You feel that I pick on you? Only because you don't look at the whole picture going back forty years, you seem to concentrate on what you see today. No doubt Buffalo is and was a suffering city. We need to get out from under the yoke of bad and corrupt government. But the city does attract tourists and entrepreneurs, who are busy assessing the advantages of starting a business in Buffalo. We are proud of the beautiful buildings by architects known world wide. You seem to harangue on and on about something without too much thought. It's been said before on this forum--all gloom and doom.

[mikewrona]

I'm feeling ornery today...

Yes, you ought to be ornery because it looks like most of the people disagree with you.

As for lack of sophistication, are a poster child. You don't seem to understand that sophistication means.

WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This
sophisticated

adjective
1. having or appealing to those having worldly knowledge and refinement and savoir-faire; "sophisticated young socialites"; "a sophisticated audience"; "a sophisticated lifestyle"; "a sophisticated book" [ant: naif]
2. ahead in development; complex or intricate; "advanced technology"; "a sophisticated electronic control system" [syn: advanced]
3. intellectually appealing; "a sophisticated drama"

WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.


Anyone who thinks: Our Lady of Victory Basilica & area churches, Delaware Ave. architecture, South Park Conservatory, the Olmstead Park, the Frank Lloyd Wright homes, the Wilcox Mansion, the Richardson Towers, the Albright Knox Art Gallery, the Burchfield Gallery, Elmwood Strip, Thursday in the Square, Shakespeare in the Park, Buffalo Museum of Science, the Buffalo & Erie County Historical Society, the Amherst Historical Museum, the Shea's Buffalo Theater, University of Buffalo Speaker Series, the Chippewa Strip, Kleinhan's Musical Hall and the Buffalo Philharmonic, the Erie Basin Marina, the China Light, Michigan Ave. Baptist Church, the Buffalo Sabres, Buffalo Bills, Buffalo and the new Canal Harbor Front, etc. are disinteresting surely comes from the mind of an unappreciative, unaware, and unsophisticated person who sits at home with nothing to do.

Not to mention nearby: Ft. Erie, Ft. Niagara, Niagara Falls, Niagara County Wineries, Niagara Gorge and Whirlpool, Ft. George, Niagara-On-The-Lake, Historic Lewiston, Art Park, and many other places.

You sure do remain one of "those suburbanites."

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Anyone who thinks: Our Lady of Victory Basilica & area churches, Delaware Ave. architecture, South Park Conservatory, the Olmstead Park, the Frank Lloyd Wright homes, the Wilcox Mansion, the Richardson Towers, the Albright Knox Art Gallery, the Burchfield Gallery, Elmwood Strip, Thursday in the Square, Shakespeare in the Park, Buffalo Museum of Science, the Buffalo & Erie County Historical Society, the Amherst Historical Museum, the Shea's Buffalo Theater, University of Buffalo Speaker Series, the Chippewa Strip, Kleinhan's Musical Hall and the Buffalo Philharmonic, the Erie Basin Marina, the China Light, Michigan Ave. Baptist Church, the Buffalo Sabres, Buffalo Bills, Buffalo and the new Canal Harbor Front, etc. are disinteresting surely comes from the mind of an unappreciative, unaware, and unsophisticated person who sits at home with nothing to do.

Not to mention nearby: Ft. Erie, Ft. Niagara, Niagara Falls, Niagara County Wineries, Niagara Gorge and Whirlpool, Ft. George, Niagara-On-The-Lake, Historic Lewiston, Art Park, and many other places.

You sure do remain one of "those suburbanites."

Not to pick a fight Mike but doesn't every major city have an equal amount of great things?

Looking for a conversation so please hold off the insults...as will I.

I am confused when people say Buffalo is in a renaissance. Sure things are moving faster then in the past but they are still way behind and some of the things people consider progress is really just everyday maintenance and evolution of a typical city.

People point out that Buffalo has $4Billion in projects in various stages. But looking at other areas, they have an equal amount if not more in development in various stages. Sometimes, those stages are farther along and not so dependent on government dollars.

People point out the wonderful things about the area, as you just did, but doesn't every city in the US have a similar list. Sure they are not the same but every city has historical churches, homes and buildings. Every city has museums, theater and symphonies. Every city has sports teams and local festivals and events that those who live in the area hold near and dear.

The question is, when Buffalo is stacked up with other areas, just how many times does Buffalo or WNY have so much more to offer that it becomes a must visit?

I think tourism is a key component to the health of the region. The CVB should be fully funded and every effort should be done to bring in outside dollars 365 days a year. But I also think that Achbek1 makes some good points on focusing on the quality of life for those who live in the region 365 days a year. How much does the perception from the outside on the quality of life for locals prevent outsiders from coming to see and enjoy the many wonderful assets of the region?

There should be a balance and logic should be used to create a return on investment formula of some sorts.

For example, the ABK is a worldwide gem that can be in full swing 365 days a year. This is something other areas do not have and if they wanted something similar it would be very hard to reproduce. I think for every dollar spent on promoting the ABK, would get at least a dollar and a quarter back.

I see the Botanical Gardens as a one of a kind wonder, especially in the spring and during Easter. I think for every dollar spent on promoting and maintaining the Gardens would net at least a buck and a quarter.

Now for the Erie Canal, I just do not see it as being a draw. Sure it will be a great place in the summer for locals and if people are from out of town it will be a nice place to spend a couple of hours. But I do not see people coming from outside of the area to visit this project. I do not see the same return on this project as I would in funding something at the ABK.

In terms of things like the Mansions on Delaware...some of the best ones are converted to office space and not open to the public. People are not going to drive from Syracuse to drive by the Knox Mansion.

In terms of the Elmwood Strip and Chip Strip, while the are wonderful assets...every city has something similar and a lot have bigger and better comparisons.

At the end of the day, WNY has a lot to offer but it also has a lot of dirty laundry that is aired in the national media on a regular basis. If Buffalo was not the second poorest city in the US, I am sure tourism would improve. People take things like that into consideration just as much as the actual attractions. Simply by not being so bad off, more people would come to visit. Improving what WNY gets a black eye in the media over has nothing to do with tourism but local issues. Don't you agree?

Why can't both be a focus? Why can't both of you be right on some aspects?

Why can't we all just get along? :D


In all seriousness Mike, I know you and I rub each other the wrong way at every turn but I think you do a lot for the area. May you have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

[Sylvan]

What does ABK stand for? Thanks!

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

What does ABK stand for? Thanks!


Albright Knox Art Gallery

[Sylvan]

Albright Knox Art Gallery

Oh yeah, I when there once.

[Achbek1]

Yes, you ought to be ornery because it looks like most of the people disagree with you.

As for lack of sophistication, are a poster child. You don't seem to understand that sophistication means.

WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This
sophisticated

adjective
1. having or appealing to those having worldly knowledge and refinement and savoir-faire; "sophisticated young socialites"; "a sophisticated audience"; "a sophisticated lifestyle"; "a sophisticated book" [ant: naif]
2. ahead in development; complex or intricate; "advanced technology"; "a sophisticated electronic control system" [syn: advanced]
3. intellectually appealing; "a sophisticated drama"

WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.


Anyone who thinks: Our Lady of Victory Basilica & area churches, Delaware Ave. architecture, South Park Conservatory, the Olmstead Park, the Frank Lloyd Wright homes, the Wilcox Mansion, the Richardson Towers, the Albright Knox Art Gallery, the Burchfield Gallery, Elmwood Strip, Thursday in the Square, Shakespeare in the Park, Buffalo Museum of Science, the Buffalo & Erie County Historical Society, the Amherst Historical Museum, the Shea's Buffalo Theater, University of Buffalo Speaker Series, the Chippewa Strip, Kleinhan's Musical Hall and the Buffalo Philharmonic, the Erie Basin Marina, the China Light, Michigan Ave. Baptist Church, the Buffalo Sabres, Buffalo Bills, Buffalo and the new Canal Harbor Front, etc. are disinteresting surely comes from the mind of an unappreciative, unaware, and unsophisticated person who sits at home with nothing to do.

Not to mention nearby: Ft. Erie, Ft. Niagara, Niagara Falls, Niagara County Wineries, Niagara Gorge and Whirlpool, Ft. George, Niagara-On-The-Lake, Historic Lewiston, Art Park, and many other places.

You sure do remain one of "those suburbanites."


You are so condescending and pretentious...

But this board is not about personal attacks, so I'll stop there.

[300miles]

Yes, we should not allow these threads to get bogged down in personal attacks. It accomplishes nothing.

But, I just don't understand what it is you are really looking for. Everything you say you want is for new development. Yet you are against CanalSide, which is new development. They are even demolishing old unused buildings to make way for the new development. But you use this thread about CanalSide to rant about preservationists. I don't get it. There are no preservation issues about canalside. Nobody is trying to save these buildings.

What gives?? You can't attack everyone and expect something to get done!

[HipKat]

Yes, you ought to be ornery because it looks like most of the people disagree with you.

As for lack of sophistication, are a poster child. You don't seem to understand that sophistication means.

WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This
sophisticated

adjective
1. having or appealing to those having worldly knowledge and refinement and savoir-faire; "sophisticated young socialites"; "a sophisticated audience"; "a sophisticated lifestyle"; "a sophisticated book" [ant: naif]
2. ahead in development; complex or intricate; "advanced technology"; "a sophisticated electronic control system" [syn: advanced]
3. intellectually appealing; "a sophisticated drama"

WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.


Anyone who thinks: Our Lady of Victory Basilica & area churches, Delaware Ave. architecture, South Park Conservatory, the Olmstead Park, the Frank Lloyd Wright homes, the Wilcox Mansion, the Richardson Towers, the Albright Knox Art Gallery, the Burchfield Gallery, Elmwood Strip, Thursday in the Square, Shakespeare in the Park, Buffalo Museum of Science, the Buffalo & Erie County Historical Society, the Amherst Historical Museum, the Shea's Buffalo Theater, University of Buffalo Speaker Series, the Chippewa Strip, Kleinhan's Musical Hall and the Buffalo Philharmonic, the Erie Basin Marina, the China Light, Michigan Ave. Baptist Church, the Buffalo Sabres, Buffalo Bills, Buffalo and the new Canal Harbor Front, etc. are disinteresting surely comes from the mind of an unappreciative, unaware, and unsophisticated person who sits at home with nothing to do.

Not to mention nearby: Ft. Erie, Ft. Niagara, Niagara Falls, Niagara County Wineries, Niagara Gorge and Whirlpool, Ft. George, Niagara-On-The-Lake, Historic Lewiston, Art Park, and many other places.

You sure do remain one of "those suburbanites."

I can't believe you actually think anyone from outside the area actually gives a damn about any of things you mentioned, other than the pro sports teams.

Not en masse anyhow, and not enough for the rest to reallty back up your argument.

I can see it now.
A family in Columbus is thinking, "Hey!! Let's go to Buffalo. They have a Baptist Church on Michigan St!!!!"

[HipKat]

Wanna bring people in?? Tourism is relegated to things the WHOLE family can enjoy, and not ONE thing you listed is interesting to kids.

Niagara Falls is it, and you have to go to Canada to enjoy it.

The only things that bring in loads of tourists are natural wonders, animals and roller coasters.
We have the natural wonder, fix THAT area up, our Zoo sucks and 6 Flags pulled up and left.

[300miles]

Don't underestimate cultural tourism.

Everytime I go to the Darwin Martin House there are many people from out of state that came here just to see the house... not to visit family or any other connection.

And that's will virtually zero advertizing dollars.

[HipKat]

how many is many, just out of curiosity???

[Sylvan]

I can't believe you actually think anyone from outside the area actually gives a damn about any of things you mentioned, other than the pro sports teams.

Not en masse anyhow, and not enough for the rest to reallty back up your argument.

I can see it now.
A family in Columbus is thinking, "Hey!! Let's go to Buffalo. They have a Baptist Church on Michigan St!!!!"
I have relatives in Columbus and they have sent their 3 children to WNY for summer camp for the last 10+ years. They come back for a a few days with me for boating and tubing. And they come to downhill ski every year too. Relatives from Cleveland do the same thing. Their oldest daughter looked at collages around here but I dont know what she picked, they looked arounf Ontario and the east coast. They love going to dinner and a show. The kids get a taste of culture wherever they go. And they would do more here more often as things develop.

Many other friends and relatives from all over the country have roots in buffalo, and would love to visit and spend their money but they choose not to bother because is just no big friggin deal. They spend more time in Rochester when they visit NYS.

[BFLOCOP]

Not to pick a fight Mike but doesn't every major city have an equal amount of great things?

Looking for a conversation so please hold off the insults...as will I.

I am confused when people say Buffalo is in a renaissance. Sure things are moving faster then in the past but they are still way behind and some of the things people consider progress is really just everyday maintenance and evolution of a typical city.

People point out that Buffalo has $4Billion in projects in various stages. But looking at other areas, they have an equal amount if not more in development in various stages. Sometimes, those stages are farther along and not so dependent on government dollars.

People point out the wonderful things about the area, as you just did, but doesn't every city in the US have a similar list. Sure they are not the same but every city has historical churches, homes and buildings. Every city has museums, theater and symphonies. Every city has sports teams and local festivals and events that those who live in the area hold near and dear.

The question is, when Buffalo is stacked up with other areas, just how many times does Buffalo or WNY have so much more to offer that it becomes a must visit?

I think tourism is a key component to the health of the region. The CVB should be fully funded and every effort should be done to bring in outside dollars 365 days a year. But I also think that Achbek1 makes some good points on focusing on the quality of life for those who live in the region 365 days a year. How much does the perception from the outside on the quality of life for locals prevent outsiders from coming to see and enjoy the many wonderful assets of the region?

There should be a balance and logic should be used to create a return on investment formula of some sorts.

For example, the ABK is a worldwide gem that can be in full swing 365 days a year. This is something other areas do not have and if they wanted something similar it would be very hard to reproduce. I think for every dollar spent on promoting the ABK, would get at least a dollar and a quarter back.

I see the Botanical Gardens as a one of a kind wonder, especially in the spring and during Easter. I think for every dollar spent on promoting and maintaining the Gardens would net at least a buck and a quarter.

Now for the Erie Canal, I just do not see it as being a draw. Sure it will be a great place in the summer for locals and if people are from out of town it will be a nice place to spend a couple of hours. But I do not see people coming from outside of the area to visit this project. I do not see the same return on this project as I would in funding something at the ABK.

In terms of things like the Mansions on Delaware...some of the best ones are converted to office space and not open to the public. People are not going to drive from Syracuse to drive by the Knox Mansion.

In terms of the Elmwood Strip and Chip Strip, while the are wonderful assets...every city has something similar and a lot have bigger and better comparisons.

At the end of the day, WNY has a lot to offer but it also has a lot of dirty laundry that is aired in the national media on a regular basis. If Buffalo was not the second poorest city in the US, I am sure tourism would improve. People take things like that into consideration just as much as the actual attractions. Simply by not being so bad off, more people would come to visit. Improving what WNY gets a black eye in the media over has nothing to do with tourism but local issues. Don't you agree?

Why can't both be a focus? Why can't both of you be right on some aspects?

Why can't we all just get along? :D


In all seriousness Mike, I know you and I rub each other the wrong way at every turn but I think you do a lot for the area. May you have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
Good Post lefty, I was just in Pittsburgh and I believe that the architecture there is at least equal to here. Now ask yourselves if you've ever thought of going to Pittsburgh for a sightseeing tour of Pittsburghs architecture. I'll bet you haven't. I think the better way to market the region should be the Senecas World Class Buffalo Casino, a Sabres game and trip to the Falls in a weekend, not some rocks buried for 50 years. Now if I gave the impression that Im against Canalside I am not, quite the contrary Im excited about it, but the Canal Slip has been a waste of time that 99% of the people around here dont care about. Hopefully now that its done we can concentrate on the parts of the project that will actually attract people.

[300miles]

There is no "one" thing that will bring people here. We need a wide variety. That's what makes a real city for people to visit and people to live in.

There are people that have no desire to visit the Erie Canal... but there are also people that have no desire to visit a Casino.

[Linda_D]

There is no "one" thing that will bring people here. We need a wide variety. That's what makes a real city for people to visit and people to live in.

There are people that have no desire to visit the Erie Canal... but there are also people that have no desire to visit a Casino.

Exactly. Look at the most successful tourist city in the area: Niagara Falls, Ontario. They have the natural wonder, the beautiful gardens, the classy restaurants and hotels -- and they have a casino, a wax museum, a gondola over the Whirlpool, an indoor splash park, amusement parks, etc.

I think what both BFLOCOP and Achbek are getting at is that Buffalo's "leaders" want to put all of Buffalo's tourism "eggs" as it were in one basket: cultural tourism. That is elitist and it appeals to only a small segment of tourists. In order for tourism to become a major economic player in the city and area, it needs to have a broad appeal, and that includes "low-brow" stuff like casinos, amusement parks, etc.

[Sylvan]

Exactly. Look at the most successful tourist city in the area: Niagara Falls, Ontario. They have the natural wonder, the beautiful gardens, the classy restaurants and hotels -- and they have a casino, a wax museum, a gondola over the Whirlpool, an indoor splash park, amusement parks, etc.

I think what both BFLOCOP and Achbek are getting at is that Buffalo's "leaders" want to put all of Buffalo's tourism "eggs" as it were in one basket: cultural tourism. That is elitist and it appeals to only a small segment of tourists. In order for tourism to become a major economic player in the city and area, it needs to have a broad appeal, and that includes "low-brow" stuff like casinos, amusement parks, etc.

You're a piece of work Linda. You spend all that time and energy mocking and good "broad appeal" development plan in an another thread then you come in here and post about needing "broad appeals". Why didnt you just mention your idea for an amusment park and other things that would appeal to the people you want to represent. Its a hypothetical open plan anyway. And I would have supported the idea even though amusment parks are a huge personal waste of money for people when they should be investing in electric cars to get them around the suburbs for chores and [for some people] work.

[Stevenco]

But this board is not about personal attacks, so I'll stop there.

It most certainly is too.:)
C'mon back Achbek.
We miss you and love you so much.

[bigpoppapuff]

ach is back...stevenco is gone...works for me...

[mikewrona]

Good Post lefty, I was just in Pittsburgh and I believe that the architecture there is at least equal to here. Now ask yourselves if you've ever thought of going to Pittsburgh for a sightseeing tour of Pittsburghs architecture. I'll bet you haven't. I think the better way to market the region should be the Senecas World Class Buffalo Casino, a Sabres game and trip to the Falls in a weekend, not some rocks buried for 50 years. Now if I gave the impression that Im against Canalside I am not, quite the contrary Im excited about it, but the Canal Slip has been a waste of time that 99% of the people around here dont care about. Hopefully now that its done we can concentrate on the parts of the project that will actually attract people.

More than 10 million people visit the Pittsburgh region annually. Travel is a $3 billion industry that provides more than 50,000 full-time equivalent jobs in Allegheny County.

Source: Visit Pittsburgh (http://www.visitpittsburgh.com/docs/VP_Press_Kit.pdf)