Baffled by how to explain our local economy

[atotaltotalfan2001]

My Mom is out here visiting from Morro Bay, California (along the central coast of California). Anyway, she is just baffled about why WNY keeps losing people and jobs. She regards this as 1) a beautiful area 2) a highly affordable area 3)a well educated area.

She asked me why this problem has continued for so long and, weirdly enough, I just couldn't think of how to explain the situation.

I mean, how do you sum about 50 years of decline?

She'll be here another week. I told her I would pose this question at this site in hopes that others could come up with a more sane explanation than I could.

So, I welcome any help!

[Effigy]

This area had heavy industry here in the 20th century that did so well that it could be outrageously taxed by government and still make a profit.

These outrageous taxes supported a wasteful system with many public jobs, and entitlement programs for lower income people.

The heavy industries either relocated or went bottoms up in the late 20th century, and government was either unable or unwilling to trim its' expenses to make up for the loss of revenue, so they shifted the burden over to the individual taxpayer. Each individual taxpayer has a certain threshold where they cry "No Mas!" and leave the area for greener pastures.

That's the Cliff Notes version, anyway.

[HipKat]

Add in that there was never enough foresight to come up with a plan that could be implemented in the case of the heavy Industry going bottoms up, so when it happened, the region had nothing to fall back on.

[WNYresident]

And in order to protect themselves (government) they wrote into law labor contracts the area can't afford for the amount of people still here.

[Mary3]

And in order to protect themselves (government) they wrote into law labor contracts the area can't afford for the amount of people still here.

I don't agree with you on your statement. The intensions were right, the large companies left for the cheeper labor to countries where people are paid as much as a dinner at McDonald's in USA (not in all cases). The companies just left the states with unions to ones without. Now, they left the ones without to countries with much much less pay and no benefits at all.

The so called advisors on both the Democrat and Republican presidents did a really bad job of negotiating trade for labor in our country and the labor in the foreign countries. The powers that be on both side didn't fight hard enough for the workers.

On a different subject, did I hear that Broadway Market is going International? That would be wonderful! There is a korean fish monger that sells whole fish with variety :D

[300miles]

She regards this as 1) a beautiful area 2) a highly affordable area 3)a well educated area.
Beauty and Brains don't guarentee Wealth.

At least that's how I justify why I'm not rich.

Nyuck Nyuck Nyuck :D

[Smiley]

And in order to protect themselves (government) they wrote into law labor contracts the area can't afford for the amount of people still here.

Res,
They don't write labor contracts into law. If they did, then there would not be any contracts to negotiate, as it would be law.

[VegasDude]

I don't agree with you on your statement. The intensions were right, the large companies left for the cheeper labor to countries where people are paid as much as a dinner at McDonald's in USA (not in all cases). The companies just left the states with unions to ones without. Now, they left the ones without to countries with much much less pay and no benefits at all.

The so called advisors on both the Democrat and Republican presidents did a really bad job of negotiating trade for labor in our country and the labor in the foreign countries. The powers that be on both side didn't fight hard enough for the workers.

On a different subject, did I hear that Broadway Market is going International? That would be wonderful! There is a korean fish monger that sells whole fish with variety :D


Nope, business's just all left NYS and went to business friendly states

[Smiley]

Nope, business's just all left NYS and went to business friendly states

Nope, countries with cheaper Labor

[concernedwnyer]

My Mom is out here visiting from Morro Bay, California (along the central coast of California). Anyway, she is just baffled about why WNY keeps losing people and jobs. She regards this as 1) a beautiful area 2) a highly affordable area 3)a well educated area.

She asked me why this problem has continued for so long and, weirdly enough, I just couldn't think of how to explain the situation.

I mean, how do you sum about 50 years of decline?

She'll be here another week. I told her I would pose this question at this site in hopes that others could come up with a more sane explanation than I could.

So, I welcome any help!

The answer is easy and it is obvious. Taxes are way to high and we have a government structure that is both wasteful and incompetent at what is they do.

Take a look at Spitz..... "things will change on day one...." What friggen century!!!!!!! People voted this gem in and he had a high apporval rating. Yesturday his DISAPROVAL RATING IS AT 51%!!!!!!

[concernedwnyer]

This area had heavy industry here in the 20th century that did so well that it could be outrageously taxed by government and still make a profit.

These outrageous taxes supported a wasteful system with many public jobs, and entitlement programs for lower income people.

The heavy industries either relocated or went bottoms up in the late 20th century, and government was either unable or unwilling to trim its' expenses to make up for the loss of revenue, so they shifted the burden over to the individual taxpayer. Each individual taxpayer has a certain threshold where they cry "No Mas!" and leave the area for greener pastures.

That's the Cliff Notes version, anyway.

This too but Buffalo sat, I should say still sits, on its ass as far as moving forward and reinventing itself after the industrialization period........ No cleanup, no vision, and nothing.....

They still have no concept design of what the water front should look like.... I would liek to knwo who is paying for all these site plan revisions?????? No firm would do it for free and even Benderson does not have a all say in it...

It is so embarrassing to think that a casino ran by Indians no less is one of the largest employers in this area…. What does that tell you…… Buffalo needs to be renamed Loserville NY.

[CSense]

Political incompetence (State and local).

I think that sums it up.

[concernedwnyer]

Political incompetence (State and local).

I think that sums it up.

People allow it to happen... But yes way to much.... I hope people are thinking about who the next governor of NY will be because if they vote Spitz in again who ever does need to have a mallot whacked over their head.
As far as I am conceredn he blew it and he should not be given another shot.

[CSense]

People allow it to happen... But yes way to much.... I hope people are thinking about who the next governor of NY will be because if they vote Spitz in again who ever does need to have a mallot whacked over their head.
As far as I am conceredn he blew it and he should not be given another shot.



Well if his poll numbers stay the same in 3 years, I'll bet you Souzzi will jump in again. Also, don't count out Andy Cuomo, he wants a ladder to the presidency.

As for the Republicans, I don't see anyone except maybe Bloomberg but he's an Independent now.

[Senrab]

Not enough private industry. Are 4 out of the top 5 employers in WNY still public/govt. jobs? At least they were in 2005 I think

[Edisonic]

Buffalo's problems are not local, and won't be solved by local measures. The USA is sinking like the Titanic, and Buffalo is just one of the lower decks.


Root cause: Incredibly cheap foreign (sometimes SLAVE) labor and no import tariffs.

We now have only 2 parts of a 3-Part system: Mass Production, Mass Distribution, Mass Consumption. Production = the missing link, and will continue that way until our money runs out. The Rich continue to get Richer, in the meantime, because they are the ones who sold out the working Americans to the Slaving Chinese. Send your thanks to Nixon & every President since.

[concernedwnyer]

Buffalo's problems are not local, and won't be solved by local measures. The USA is sinking like the Titanic, and Buffalo is just one of the lower decks.


Root cause: Incredibly cheap foreign (sometimes SLAVE) labor and no import tariffs.

We now have only 2 parts of a 3-Part system: Mass Production, Mass Distribution, Mass Consumption. Production = the missing link, and will continue that way until our money runs out. The Rich continue to get Richer, in the meantime, because they are the ones who sold out the working Americans to the Slaving Chinese. Send your thanks to Nixon & every President since.

You kidding....... On one of the news programs, I cannot recall which - I think it was CNN, The housing market is low very low, Personal credit debt to the avg american is $10,000.00 dollars. Forclosuers are high..... This country has some serious economic issues....... Taxes throughout are increasing to try and offset the ever increasing expence demands to operate municipalities...

We are getting into some serious trouble.... Hold on tight for the ride cause we aint seen not'in yet!

[HipKat]

What you said is part of what he said, or a byproduct of it.
Most of the jobs that went over seas were good paying.

People were used to having the money to afford things, like a new house, and if they lost their job, their experience could get them into another similar job.
But now those jobs are gone, and people have to settle for lower paying jobs, but aren't used to not being able to afford the things they could before.

Americans are terrible budgeters, if nothing else.

Good paying jobs gone + cheap labor taking existing jobs + rising costs + skilled American labers with empty pockets = a sinking economy.

[concernedwnyer]

Good paying jobs gone + cheap labor taking existing jobs + rising costs + skilled American labers with empty pockets = a sinking economy.

Oh well such is life... Welcome to living in the USA in the 21st century!!!
What will five years from now bring us... I keep thinking of that Blade Runner movie... Total chaos... People turining into criminals to survive...... Collapse of the economy....

Seems many teenagers of today are off to a good start... the new thing in is home invasions, petty theft, and drugs in high school...

But then you also have the big execs who get multi million dollar bonus way on top while the bread crumbs, the little people, are cleaning the floors..

[VegasDude]

Buffalo's problems are not local, and won't be solved by local measures. The USA is sinking like the Titanic, and Buffalo is just one of the lower decks.


Root cause: Incredibly cheap foreign (sometimes SLAVE) labor and no import tariffs.

We now have only 2 parts of a 3-Part system: Mass Production, Mass Distribution, Mass Consumption. Production = the missing link, and will continue that way until our money runs out. The Rich continue to get Richer, in the meantime, because they are the ones who sold out the working Americans to the Slaving Chinese. Send your thanks to Nixon & every President since.

WRONG !
The majority of Buffalo/Erie County's problems are just local !
The worst is yet to come ! The sad fact is that this area will continue to decline farther as long as the taxes keep going up, government keeps hiring and private sector jobs keep leaving. It can't be sustained. The rest of the cities in this nation have a healthy economy, are booming, growing with
population increases and all kinds of new business's are opening up. Do you know other place that's got not JUST ONE CONTROL BOARD, But has 2 CONTROL BOARDS ! :confused:

[Sylvan]

Tell Mom from California that I blame "dogma". http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j140/gottabeme_2006/smoke-1.gif

[Smiley]

WRONG !
The majority of Buffalo/Erie County's problems are just local !
The worst is yet to come ! The sad fact is that this area will continue to decline farther as long as the taxes keep going up, government keeps hiring and private sector jobs keep leaving. It can't be sustained. The rest of the cities in this nation have a healthy economy, are booming, growing with
population increases and all kinds of new business's are opening up. Do you know other place that's got not JUST ONE CONTROL BOARD, But has 2 CONTROL BOARDS ! :confused:

While we do have our problems locally, the majority of them is not just because of the way things are done locally. It is the domino affect and it starts at the top and is a direct result of their actions in Washington.

One thing about the new hires in government, there has been a two tier system negotiated for pay and benefits for government employees. The new hires, for the most part, do not recieve the same level of benefits that the seasoned employees get. So in time the cost will be reduced, or won't be as high as it could be.

[HipKat]

Oh well such is life... Welcome to living in the USA in the 21st century!!!
What will five years from now bring us... I keep thinking of that Blade Runner movie... Total chaos... People turining into criminals to survive...... Collapse of the economy....

Seems many teenagers of today are off to a good start... the new thing in is home invasions, petty theft, and drugs in high school...

But then you also have the big execs who get multi million dollar bonus way on top while the bread crumbs, the little people, are cleaning the floors..




While we do have our problems locally, the majority of them is not just because of the way things are done locally. It is the domino affect and it starts at the top and is a direct result of their actions in Washington.

One thing about the new hires in government, there has been a two tier system negotiated for pay and benefits for government employees. The new hires, for the most part, do not recieve the same level of benefits that the seasoned employees get. So in time the cost will be reduced, or won't be as high as it could be.


Yeah, exactly. And 5 years from now, more people are going to be forced to take the blinders off and take a look at reality. A reality that this country isn't going down the tubes; it's gone.

When was the last time an administration was pro American production?? Or pro-American prosperity for the people?/
We've been sold out and sold down the river so many times, ands now it makes me cry to think of all the money wasted in Iraq.

[Smiley]

Yeah, exactly. And 5 years from now, more people are going to be forced to take the blinders off and take a look at reality. A reality that this country isn't going down the tubes; it's gone.

When was the last time an administration was pro American production?? Or pro-American prosperity for the people?/
We've been sold out and sold down the river so many times, ands now it makes me cry to think of all the money wasted in Iraq.

I agrre with you on that!

[HipKat]

I have a two year old daughter, and by friday a new born daughter.
My two year old is a genius. She can count using her fingers and toes, knows all her ABC's, can sing the damn song, she even knows what a treble cleff is, and I have to figure out how I'm going to be able to nurture that and nudge her towards picking a career tha twill allow her to take care of herself, and then the new girl, too.
I have no idea how I'm gonna do that, with peer pressure from other kids, 12 year old's getting pregnant, 16 year olds wanting babies, and that's THIS generation.

Factor in a poor economy, and me never having had a really good income..

That's tough, but we can go fight in Iraq for 500 billion+ dollars for no reason, and send all our jobs to India, China and Mexico.....

[Smiley]

I have a two year old daughter, and by friday a new born daughter.
My two year old is a genius. She can count using her fingers and toes, knows all her ABC's, can sing the damn song, she even knows what a treble cleff is, and I have to figure out how I'm going to be able to nurture that and nudge her towards picking a career tha twill allow her to take care of herself, and then the new girl, too.
I have no idea how I'm gonna do that, with peer pressure from other kids, 12 year old's getting pregnant, 16 year olds wanting babies, and that's THIS generation.

Factor in a poor economy, and me never having had a really good income..

That's tough, but we can go fight in Iraq for 500 billion+ dollars for no reason, and send all our jobs to India, China and Mexico.....

You're right. Trying to find a career that will not only fit, but be around for her to enjoy and live a sucessful life.

The war coupled with the NAFTA and CAFTA impact, it will continue to decline. IMO, The workers in the USA missed the boat years ago when the clothing industry started to import items and "we" did nothing to challenge that. It's been downhill from there.

[HipKat]

You're right. Trying to find a career that will not only fit, but be around for her to enjoy and live a sucessful life.

The war coupled with the NAFTA and CAFTA impact, it will continue to decline. IMO, The workers in the USA missed the boat years ago when the clothing industry started to import items and "we" did nothing to challenge that. It's been downhill from there.
Man, that is exactly the truth, and no one saw it coming.

[concernedwnyer]

Man, that is exactly the truth, and no one saw it coming.

Hey don't let it get to you.. Deal with it.

[HipKat]

Hey don't let it get to you.. Deal with it.

I do. Everyday