2 Airports in WNY

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I just wanted to see what people thought about the new airport in the Falls.

Personally, I think it is great. It will provide more flights and lower prices. In the next 20 years, I think this could be one of those things calling "turining points" if you will.

[mesue]

Why do they call the airport in Cheektowaga the "Buffalo-Niagara Airport" if they want to put a bigger one in Niagara Falls? and How is this a good idea? Cheaper flights than out of Buffalo? Which airlines would participate that don't already in Buffalo?

[300miles]

The airport in NF was used mostly for the military and was built with a 2 mile long runway... much longer than most commercial runways for small cities. Because of that, it can land large planes that are used in international flights, even the giant new airbus that many cities had to extend their runways to support.

The Buffalo airport is relatively landlocked in Cheektowaga and cannot expand their runway (supposedly) to accomodate many international flights.

[Timmy]

The Niagara Falls Airport would be great for Cargo and Air Freight which is part of the original marketing plan but with the Seneca Casino there is pressure for charter flights to feed the casino.

The Buffalo Niagara International Airport is centrally located for the 8 country WNY region but as the NFTA has said it is landlocked and near capacity for expansion which means that very soon a light rail connection would allow them to use those parking lots to expand the terminal.

There may come a time when the runways in Buffalo are to small and they may have to switch to the Niagara Falls site but we are a long way from that date.

The more nearterm decision is can we connect the Niagara Falls Airport to a light rail extension feeding downtown Niagara Falls or the UB Amherst Lockport extension. If that happens that it really doesnt matter what plane lands where because it will effectively be one NFTA airport with two sites.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Why do they call the airport in Cheektowaga the "Buffalo-Niagara Airport" if they want to put a bigger one in Niagara Falls? and How is this a good idea? Cheaper flights than out of Buffalo? Which airlines would participate that don't already in Buffalo?


Good Questions.

First off the actual airport terminal will be smaller in the Falls. The 2 biggest reasons I see for the falls airport:

Longer Runway- With the new international plans, mainly the Airbus A380, they need a much longer runway then what exists at BNIA. A runway of 2 miles already exists in the Falls. In order for this to happen at BNIA, the runway would have to go over the 90, which is not going to happen. With the increasing costs of flying out of Candida, there is an opportunity for WNY to become a cheaper hub for international flights for Southern Ontario and WNY to Rochester. I remember as a kid it was the opposite. You went to Toronto to fly international because it was cheaper.

Open Space/Land- The BNIA does have "some" room to grow but not that much. The airport in the Falls has the room to build a shipping facility. Going after a UPS/Fed Ex type operation would be great for the area. In fact I will start a thread about that in "Company Watch" when I get a second.


In terms of Cheaper Flights, yes I think this will happen. The second airport in the Falls could attract another major carrier to compete with Southwest and US Air in Buffalo. As long as the "fees" associated with using an airport remain low, as they are today, WNY will do just fine in "stealing" business from Toronto and other areas.

In terms of the comments from Timmy, he is a little off. BNIA can hold more flights. I live in San Diego which has around the same # of gates and only 1 runway. They do a lot more traffic then Buffalo. Rail to the airports should happen but it is not as pressing as some think.

I would like to see the charter operations eventually move from BNIA to the Falls. The site where Prior Aviation sits today could hold a second terminal with up to 30 gates. This would almost double the gates at BNIA.

The last main benefit of the airport in the Falls is the fact that it is being built AFTER 9/11. I know this is morbid but it is true. Most of the challenges faced in airport operations is from security. Almost every major airport in the US was built before 9/11 and were built to hold more people at the gates then before check in.

BNIA, is working to correct this and the new airport should be designed with this in mind. I know it is a small detail but fast forward 10 years and a company is looking to build back offices somewhere. If WNY can show that their 2 airports serve both the US and International locations and have been designed to move people at a much faster clip, that is time savings. Time is money to companies. If an executive can save 30 minutes per flight and has to fly 4 times a month, that is a 48 hours savings per year per executive. Something that will be considered.

[mesue]

Why do international flights need a longer runway? Are they bigger planes?

[Velvet Fog]

Why do international flights need a longer runway? Are they bigger planes?
Yes, most are. Buffalo's runway is not long enough and having the secnd airport for larger airplanes would save you /us a trip to Toronto or maybe a connecting flight!

[BorderBob]

There are lots of possibilities for KIAG (Niagara Falls International). There is room for parallel 11 thousand foot runways should the need arise. Something KBUF (Buffalo-Niagara International) could never do.

As far as savings, I don't know that anything like that could occur so long as the NFTA owns both airports. They missed the opportunity for cargo growth when they put FedEX, the Post Office and such on Cayuga Drive instead of in Niagara Falls.

So long as the NFTA owns both facilities, they will always defer to KBUF and strangle KIAG.

b.b.

[Timmy]

Yes, most are. Buffalo's runway is not long enough and having the secnd airport for larger airplanes would save you /us a trip to Toronto or maybe a connecting flight!


There are lots of possibilities for KIAG (Niagara Falls International). There is room for parallel 11 thousand foot runways should the need arise. Something KBUF (Buffalo-Niagara International) could never do.

As far as savings, I don't know that anything like that could occur so long as the NFTA owns both airports. They missed the opportunity for cargo growth when they put FedEX, the Post Office and such on Cayuga Drive instead of in Niagara Falls.

So long as the NFTA owns both facilities, they will always defer to KBUF and strangle KIAG.

b.b.

I dont necessarily agree. The Niagara Falls Airport is perfect for Cargo and International Flights while the Buffalo Airport is perfect for national or domestic flights.

If connected by light rail...they arent that far apart....
One could be Buffalo Niagara International Airport (Niagara Falls)
The other could be Buffalo Niagara National (Buffalo)

and future growth of cargo especially for canadian firms favors Niagara Falls but lets not forget that CSX now has intermodal facilities at the Central Terminal Williams Rail Yards and intermodal facilities at the Seneca Rail Yards/Port of Buffalo so there are also reasons for cargo facilities on the eastside and southside.

there is also discussion of reactivating a dormant Niagara Falls Rail Yard and the dormant Rail Line on the Whirlpool Bridge which would give Buffalo Niagara ATLEAST THREE MAJOR INTERNATIONAL INTERMODAL LOGISTICAL FACILITIES THANKS TO THE BOOMING TRADE WITH CANADA AND WNY BECOMING THE AUXILLIARY PORT FOR NY/NJ.

I say bring them on..connect them...and come up with a creative way to name them. (If only we had another major airport in the southtowns to leverage.)

Buffalo is a world center of logistics but you would never know it from its logistical services, or the value it adds on those goods, or from its infrastructure......but then Buffalos geographic location lends itself to history and tourism (which we starve), international communications (which we arent even exploring), etc etc etc

[Velvet Fog]

I dont necessarily agree. The Niagara Falls Airport is perfect for Cargo and International Flights while the Buffalo Airport is perfect for national or domestic flights.

If connected by light rail...they arent that far apart....
One could be Buffalo Niagara International Airport (Niagara Falls)
The other could be Buffalo Niagara National (Buffalo)

and future growth of cargo especially for canadian firms favors Niagara Falls but lets not forget that CSX now has intermodal facilities at the Central Terminal Williams Rail Yards and intermodal facilities at the Seneca Rail Yards/Port of Buffalo so there are also reasons for cargo facilities on the eastside and southside.

there is also discussion of reactivating a dormant Niagara Falls Rail Yard and the dormant Rail Line on the Whirlpool Bridge which would give Buffalo Niagara ATLEAST THREE MAJOR INTERNATIONAL INTERMODAL LOGISTICAL FACILITIES THANKS TO THE BOOMING TRADE WITH CANADA AND WNY BECOMING THE AUXILLIARY PORT FOR NY/NJ.

I say bring them on..connect them...and come up with a creative way to name them. (If only we had another major airport in the southtowns to leverage.)

Buffalo is a world center of logistics but you would never know it from its logistical services, or the value it adds on those goods, or from its infrastructure......but then Buffalos geographic location lends itself to history and tourism (which we starve), international communications (which we arent even exploring), etc etc etc
But you do agree with me--read my post again.

[JustRetired]

Yes, most are. Buffalo's runway is not long enough and having the secnd airport for larger airplanes would save you /us a trip to Toronto or maybe a connecting flight!

I was told a few years back, that it is not that they are not long enough, it's that they are not structurally strong enough to take the pounding from the heavier jets. Nothing bigger than a DC10 or L1011 except in an emergency.

Not saying it's true, just that I was told that.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I was told a few years back, that it is not that they are not long enough, it's that they are not structurally strong enough to take the pounding from the heavier jets. Nothing bigger than a DC10 or L1011 except in an emergency.

Not saying it's true, just that I was told that.


The main runway that has the tunnel...this is the case. But with the new Airbus A380, these planes are HUGE and essentially need a longer runway to land. So it is a little bit of both.

One thing is for sure, the cost of fuel is NOT going to go down. This means airlines are going to look to fly the most people at a time. This means bigger planes.

[Timmy]

One has to wonder with so many airports at capacity and the sky above at capacity

one has to wonder with our interstate thruways and local expressways nearing capacity

one has to wonder if someone will have the brilliant idea of high speed rail for short commutes under 300 miles....at 200+ mph thats roughly 1-1.5 hours.

what will it take to put high speed rail on an equal balance of transportation needs with the air and the auto.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

One has to wonder with so many airports at capacity and the sky above at capacity

one has to wonder with our interstate thruways and local expressways nearing capacity

one has to wonder if someone will have the brilliant idea of high speed rail for short commutes under 300 miles....at 200+ mph thats roughly 1-1.5 hours.

what will it take to put high speed rail on an equal balance of transportation needs with the air and the auto.


Dude come on. Stop hijacking threads. Start a rail thread in master planning and I will join in. This is about 2 AIRPORTS.