Eye sore or not? Grain storage tower

[WNYresident]

Water taxi debuts at city waterfront




http://www.buffalonews.com/incoming/article427376.ece/BINARY/w620/WATER+TAXI.jpg

Read the full story in the Buffalo News (http://www.buffalonews.com/city/communities/downtown/article427386.ece)


Betty Rosenthal took a ride Thursday on the Queen City Water Ferry, which will begin service between the inner and outer harbors on Memorial Day weekend.
She was thrilled.
"I lived in Florida for 14 years, used the water taxis up and down the river all the time, and I just think this is great. I've been wondering why it hasn't happened before," said Rosenthal, who lives in the University District.
The water taxi was unveiled with fanfare at the Commercial Slip on Erie Canal Harbor, as speakers heralded the boat's arrival as a harbinger of more good things to come.



Not related to the story but to the photograph...


Are the grain mills eye sores or not?

[granpabob]

Yes just hunks of concrete covered with bird droppings and mold they should have been removed years ago and the rubble used to reinforce the break wall

[300miles]

Why not. Other more iconic buffalo building have been unceremoniously dumped onto the breakwall.

If only we had planned better we could have an entire downtown full of 1-story KFC's by now.

[granpabob]

If we have to save one then save one silo not all of them

[300miles]

Are you going to pay for the demolitions?

[300miles]

i only ask that because that's what people always say to someone that doesn't want a building torn down ("buy it yourself")

[Achbek1]

Water taxi debuts at city waterfront




http://www.buffalonews.com/incoming/article427376.ece/BINARY/w620/WATER+TAXI.jpg

Read the full story in the Buffalo News (http://www.buffalonews.com/city/communities/downtown/article427386.ece)




Not related to the story but to the photograph...


Are the grain mills eye sores or not?

WHAT? ARE YOU CAH-RAY-ZEEEEEE?

Thousands upon THOUSANDS of historic grain elevator aficionados and upscale MUP students are clamoring-- CLAMORING I tell you-- to get a glimpse at these GORGEOUS, HISTORIC and-- need I say-- INSPIRATIONAL edifices!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In fact, I heard from a certain someone that a person who had suffered from intermittent bouts of gout, leprosy and asthma being instantly cured-- INSTANTLY CURED-- I tell ya upon merely setting eyes upon the GREAT GRAIN ELEVATORS!!!!!!

Lemme tell ya folks, my husband and I went for a romantic boat ride near those FABULOUS grain elevators and-- I KID YOU NOT-- my husband suddenly grabbed my hand, looked into my eyes and GAZED AT ME WITH A PASSION THAT HE NEVER HAD BEFORE! I can say, with utmost certainty, that the GRAIN ELEVATORS SAVED MY MARRIAGE!

Also, I am telling the complete truth here, when I came back from my boat ride near the grain elevators I looked into the mirror. I COULD NOT-- ABSOLUTELY COULD NOT-- BELIEVE MY EYES, folks... Being in the presence of the grain elevator had removed my crows feet, restored color to my gray hairs, added TWO-- COUNT 'EM TWO-- cup sizes to my bra and... and... get this... CURED MY ECZEMA.

So Rez, you think these things are EYE SORES? HA!

I bet that if you DID have sores around your eyes that these beauties would CURE 'EM!!!!!!!


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[granpabob]

i only ask that because that's what people always say to someone that doesn't want a building torn down ("buy it yourself")

condemn them and charge the company that owns them for the tear down

[300miles]

i'll remember this thread when people say Preservation goes against property rights...

[Save Us]

It's a complete eyesore....making housing out of it? Only if it makes economic sense for a developer. Won't ever happen.

Saving them for posterity?.....that's a joke..Buffalo is full of posterity and what jobs has that brought?

Can we float an economy on architecture? Hardly but we keep praying.


Disney was build in the middle of swamp and consists of fiberglass and plastic and is the largest tourist attraction in the world.

Buffalo needs to stop believing in the tooth fairy.

[300miles]

Disney was build in the middle of swamp and consists of fiberglass and plastic and is the largest tourist attraction in the world.
ok. As long as we're making irrelevant comparisons... Paris strictly limited cheap modern buildings at its city center and preserved as much as possible of it's old architectural style. And it is one of the top destinations and famous cities of the world.

Now that we got that out of the way, we can get back to Buffalo's buildings. :)

[Achbek1]

ok. As long as we're making irrelevant comparisons... Paris strictly limited cheap modern buildings at its city center and preserved as much as possible of it's old architectural style. And it is one of the top destinations and famous cities of the world.

Now that we got that out of the way, we can get back to Buffalo's buildings. :)

...And I hear that herbalists from the Far East are planning to take some of the mold and bird droppings from inside the grain elevators and grind them up and use them in "male virility" pills...

Rubbing your cheek against the grain elevators is said to increase concentration skills and aid in learning a new language! :)

[Achbek1]

Buffalo needs to stop believing in the tooth fairy.

EXACTLY! Didn't Rising mention something about Buffalo being the city where "Prissy old fairies think you are gonna pay money to see old buildings?" ;)

[granpabob]

Paris does have old buildings Buffalo's are just a hundred years old. save the two or three hundred year old buildings but not every building some guy planned. all buildings have architects who drew the plans but other than FRANK the GREAT who has even heard of the rest. the only reason people know them is because their buildings start to fall apart and are abandoned then people step up to save them. if they aren't good enough for the owners to do yearly repairs then why keep these old buildings. the giant pigeon coups on the water front are eye sores that will soon become disease spreading hazards as more and more birds fill them up

[Mindcrime]

I've heard of similar towers being converted into other things, from windmills to condos. Although I think the age, remoteness & condition of these structures make any kind of conversion impractical.

[Achbek1]

...But it cured my ECZEMA!

[Save Us]

ok. As long as we're making irrelevant comparisons... Paris strictly limited cheap modern buildings at its city center and preserved as much as possible of it's old architectural style. And it is one of the top destinations and famous cities of the world.

Now that we got that out of the way, we can get back to Buffalo's buildings. :)

People go to different cities/places for different reasons.. my point is that PARIS IS PARIS and DISNEY IS DISNEY. They are both world renowned for certain things......Buffalo's grain elevators and canal terminus do not rank...remotely and ergo no matter how much fanfare or marketing will not compete or draw. You may get a few Lloyd Wright, EB Green, or Louis Sullivan fans but that won't make any bank for this area.

My point is that it is not enough of a draw to bring in revenue.. it's only value is for posterity of those that live here.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I've heard of similar towers being converted into other things, from windmills to condos. Although I think the age, remoteness & condition of these structures make any kind of conversion impractical.

Really? You don't think someone would want to live in an working industrial zone in a converted grain elevator?

I posted a year or so ago a series of images with all of the conversion projects that the fools who want to keep the elevators up use as examples.

In all of the examples, the neighborhood had been completely abandoned by industry. With Buffalo, there are still some working parts to the water and as long as those are working, people are not going to live next to them.

Even if industry was completely gone, another difference is the examples are not in a remote location. Each had several points of access, rather than just one road AND they already had a residential component.

The biggest challenge for the grain elevators in Buffalo was their success in the past. Other cities had 1 or 2 and because of this, they only had 1 or 2 to repurpose. Buffalo was such a hub, almost all of the elevators are located in industrial settings due to previous density.

The ONLY elevator that is somewhat similar to the examples in other areas is the Standard Elevator. This backs up the the lower 1st ward and has several points of access. However, it is still active (ADM milling) and the waterfront side looks at...you guest it...grain elevators.

[300miles]

People go to different cities/places for different reasons.. my point is that PARIS IS PARIS and DISNEY IS DISNEY. They are both world renowned for certain things......Buffalo's grain elevators and canal terminus do not rank...
But you're contradicting yourself. Paris is Paris. Disney is Disney. But then you say Buffalo should not be Buffalo... it should be like somewhere else?

The grain elevators, the canal... those ARE Buffalo. It's time some Buffalonians grew up and realized what we are - and celebrate it - instead of wishing we were somewhere else.

[Save Us]

But you're contradicting yourself. Paris is Paris. Disney is Disney. But then you say Buffalo should not be Buffalo... it should be like somewhere else?

The grain elevators, the canal... those ARE Buffalo. It's time some Buffalonians grew up and realized what we are - and celebrate it - instead of wishing we were somewhere else.

My point was that saving them and realizing that it is for posterity is different than saving them because somehow it will bring people that spend cash and generate an economy... something that Disney and Paris does.

Holding on to such vestiges is fine, its just not going to bring in tourists, dollars or jobs here.

I think Buffalo is a great place.. I live here by choice.

[Save Us]

Really? You don't think someone would want to live in an working industrial zone in a converted grain elevator?

I posted a year or so ago a series of images with all of the conversion projects that the fools who want to keep the elevators up use as examples.

In all of the examples, the neighborhood had been completely abandoned by industry. With Buffalo, there are still some working parts to the water and as long as those are working, people are not going to live next to them.

Even if industry was completely gone, another difference is the examples are not in a remote location. Each had several points of access, rather than just one road AND they already had a residential component.

The biggest challenge for the grain elevators in Buffalo was their success in the past. Other cities had 1 or 2 and because of this, they only had 1 or 2 to repurpose. Buffalo was such a hub, almost all of the elevators are located in industrial settings due to previous density.

The ONLY elevator that is somewhat similar to the examples in other areas is the Standard Elevator. This backs up the the lower 1st ward and has several points of access. However, it is still active (ADM milling) and the waterfront side looks at...you guest it...grain elevators.

The only way such a project comes to fruition............A developer can make money doing such. Unless they can do it profitably it aint gonna happen. All the government likes to build are subsidized housing and court houses.

[300miles]

My point was that saving them and realizing that it is for posterity is different than saving them because somehow it will bring people that spend cash and generate an economy... something that Disney and Paris does.

Holding on to such vestiges is fine, its just not going to bring in tourists, dollars or jobs here.

I think Buffalo is a great place.. I live here by choice.
That's great, and I know what you mean that tourist aren't going to flock to these things just because we save them. But when you talk about Paris saving building because it would generate cash - - no it's wasn't that simple. Paris buildings are hundreds of years old. They didn't save them back in the 1800's simply because they wanted to generate tourism. They saved them because they wanted to keep Paris Paris. They were careful to avoid losing what made Paris unique over hundreds of years. But people in Buffalo see an old building and say "tear it down" because it's not a tourist attraction now.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

That's great, and I know what you mean that tourist aren't going to flock to these things just because we save them. But when you talk about Paris saving building because it would generate cash - - no it's wasn't that simple. Paris buildings are hundreds of years old. They didn't save them back in the 1800's simply because they wanted to generate tourism. They saved them because they wanted to keep Paris Paris. They were careful to avoid losing what made Paris unique over hundreds of years. But people in Buffalo see an old building and say "tear it down" because it's not a tourist attraction now.

Wrong. You need a history book kid.

At the request of Napoleon III, Paris was completely reshaped by Haussmann in the middle of the 1800s. The project was done to remove the mistakes of centuries of haphazard development and project the city forward, among other reasons. To do this, a lot of sh*t was torn down and the Paris you see today was built.

The reason why a lot of buildings were not torn down in the last century is Paris was happy to have any buildings after two World Wars. That and Haussmann's Paris is loved.

Point being, every great city has rebuilt itself. Sometimes it comes from a major disaster and other times on purpose. However, in all cases the city comes out stronger and for the better.

Does this mean Buffalo should tear down the Statler? Hell no. Should they tear down a brick townhouse for a parking lot? Nope. But it sure as hell needs to get over those freaking grain elevators and do something with the waterfront.

If you think people mock you now about them...just wait until you hear what they say in 20-40 years.

[Save Us]

Wrong. You need a history book kid.

At the request of Napoleon III, Paris was completely reshaped by Haussmann in the middle of the 1800s. The project was done to remove the mistakes of centuries of haphazard development and project the city forward, among other reasons. To do this, a lot of sh*t was torn down and the Paris you see today was built.

The reason why a lot of buildings were not torn down in the last century is Paris was happy to have any buildings after two World Wars. That and Haussmann's Paris is loved.

Point being, every great city has rebuilt itself. Sometimes it comes from a major disaster and other times on purpose. However, in all cases the city comes out stronger and for the better.

Does this mean Buffalo should tear down the Statler? Hell no. Should they tear down a brick townhouse for a parking lot? Nope. But it sure as hell needs to get over those freaking grain elevators and do something with the waterfront.

If you think people mock you now about them...just wait until you hear what they say in 20-40 years.

the HH Richardson building has been abandoned for decades. It is a nationally renowned historical architectural gem......

It's rotting....because neither the state has the money to do anything other than maintainence, nor is any developer throwing cash into that structure.

So.. there it sits... no parking lot, no development into usuable space, no tourists to see it.....nothing just decay until no amount of money can save it.

It sure is a hell of lot better looking than any grain elevator.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

the HH Richardson building has been abandoned for decades. It is a nationally renowned historical architectural gem......

It's rotting....because neither the state has the money to do anything other than maintainence, nor is any developer throwing cash into that structure.

So.. there it sits... no parking lot, no development into usuable space, no tourists to see it.....nothing just decay until no amount of money can save it.

It sure is a hell of lot better looking than any grain elevator.

It should be saved.

The problem with Buffalo, IMHO, is it suffers from guilt. Guilt of taking down buildings like the Larking Admin. Because some are so scared of having this happen again, they want to save every.single.building.

[300miles]

At the request of Napoleon III, Paris was completely reshaped by Haussmann in the middle of the 1800s.
Ok I'll admit I was off with that one. Maybe by 50 - 100 years. Details... :o


It's rotting....because neither the state has the money to do anything other than maintainence, nor is any developer throwing cash into that structure.

So.. there it sits... no parking lot, no development into usuable space, no tourists to see it.....nothing just decay until no amount of money can save it.
This isn't really true. The state has set aside 75 million dollars to renovate the building that includes a master plan on how to re-use it.
http://www.richardson-olmsted.com/documents/RichardsonBrochure-REVISED.pdf


The problem with Buffalo, IMHO, is it suffers from guilt. Guilt of taking down buildings like the Larking Admin. Because some are so scared of having this happen again, they want to save every.single.building.
To some extent...maybe... But you have to admit it's not just famous losses like Larkin Admin, but entire blocks of city laid waste for nothing more than parking lots... or architecturally detailed "regular buildings" that today are simply irreplaceable being replaced with single-story disposable windowless buildings. Looking at an aerial view of downtown and letting it sink in how much was destroyed is depressing. It hasn't been improved - it's simply been destroyed.

Tearing something down to replace it with something better like Paris did in the 1800's is not what's going on here in Buffalo. We continually tear things down to replace them with nothing or something worse. That is not progress.

[Save Us]

The master plan is one of several that have been proposed over the years, this one dated from 2009. There have been many feasibility studies submitted, and the fact that there is set aside money doesn't mean much to me. Remember we are in NY. The more time that lapses the more money will be necessary to just maintain the facility. This money was only set aside after a lawsuit was brought against the state. The set aside in my opinion was only a response to lawsuit.

The point that needs to be made is that we have set of buildings that were designed for habitation, and like functions, and have obvious appeal... yet decades later anything meaningful has yet to materialize regarding their adaptive re-use. This bodes even worse for the grain elevators unless again a developer can be shown their is need and profit. Development depends on the private sector.

Meaningful planning in this area has been absent since Olmstead.. Buffalo's salvation is the medical corridor in MO. Raliegh Durham, Charlotte, Houston, etc. have been successful not because of any architectural reason but rather finance, technology, etc. etc. even with Charlotte's collapse of financing there is still the infrastructure ie. incentive to develop.
As sad as it is to see, Buffalo needs to appreciate it's architecture and preserve it but not at the expense of economic growth. Downtown is a ghost town after 6 pm, and no amount of historical preservation is going to bring it back again in my opinion.

[300miles]

As sad as it is to see, Buffalo needs to appreciate it's architecture and preserve it but not at the expense of economic growth. Downtown is a ghost town after 6 pm, and no amount of historical preservation is going to bring it back again in my opinion.
I'm not seeing the connection. How are the grain elevators hurting Buffalo's economic growth? And how will tearing most of them down boost Buffalo's growth? Usually people just want them gone because they're tired of looking at them. And as a general case around Buffalo, when businesses want a building gone it's for a parking lot. These reasons do not benefit Buffalo's economy in any way that brings us to a better future. We have enough parking lots and shovel ready sites. There is little reason to create more.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

o some extent...maybe... But you have to admit it's not just famous losses like Larkin Admin, but entire blocks of city laid waste for nothing more than parking lots... or architecturally detailed "regular buildings" that today are simply irreplaceable being replaced with single-story disposable windowless buildings. Looking at an aerial view of downtown and letting it sink in how much was destroyed is depressing. It hasn't been improved - it's simply been destroyed.

Tearing something down to replace it with something better like Paris did in the 1800's is not what's going on here in Buffalo. We continually tear things down to replace them with nothing or something worse. That is not progress.

True. The city has done a horrible job. I know the aerial view well as I have spent hours playing a city planner. Very sad.

I guess my point is that the fight over things like Canal Side 'looking right' are so far outside of the circle of what matters and the focus...people tune things out.

The cry to save rotting industrial buildings is so moronic to many that they tune the important things out.

[Save Us]

I'm not seeing the connection. How are the grain elevators hurting Buffalo's economic growth? And how will tearing most of them down boost Buffalo's growth? Usually people just want them gone because they're tired of looking at them. And as a general case around Buffalo, when businesses want a building gone it's for a parking lot. These reasons do not benefit Buffalo's economy in any way that brings us to a better future. We have enough parking lots and shovel ready sites. There is little reason to create more.

Grain elevators only hurt Buffalo's economic growth if they are an impediment to developing the area. Parking lots are not all bad they are a sign that there is enough draw to an area to warrant one.

Although the larkin bldg was a tragedy.. I don't feel the grain elevators are of the same status any more than a casting plant, coke oven, or smelting furnace.
No one seems to miss those. Yet they were architecurally unique.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I'm not seeing the connection. How are the grain elevators hurting Buffalo's economic growth? And how will tearing most of them down boost Buffalo's growth? Usually people just want them gone because they're tired of looking at them. And as a general case around Buffalo, when businesses want a building gone it's for a parking lot. These reasons do not benefit Buffalo's economy in any way that brings us to a better future.


The simple answer is that the number of grain elevators on the water are keeping the waterfront an industrial zone. Not only that but tied to specific industries.

If all of the inactive elevators were removed, and there are many, the land could be repurposed. Either for another industry or simply green space.



We have enough parking lots and shovel ready sites. There is little reason to create more.

That is where you are wrong. Ask any property owner what they would rather see out the window..

1 - A empty grass lot
2 - A parking lot
3 - A rotting industrial building

The fact is, having industrial sites around your property does NOTHING to help your property value. At least with a parking lot or grass lot, you have potential. There is little potential for the grain elevators as long as so many exist. They are unique structures that are very difficult to repurpose.

If we were talking about warehouses, you would have a point. But not for the massive elevators.

[300miles]

I don't agree. We have gone through generations under the false notion that "If you tear it down, they will come". It hasn't worked in the past, and it won't work going forward. By now it should be obvious to everyone here.

[WNYresident]

I don't agree. We have gone through generations under the false notion that "If you tear it down, they will come". It hasn't worked in the past, and it won't work going forward. By now it should be obvious to everyone here.


I don't agree. We have gone through generations under the false notion that "If you leave them up, they will come". It hasn't worked in the past, and it won't work going forward. By now it should be obvious to everyone here.

:D

[Save Us]

I don't agree. We have gone through generations under the false notion that "If you leave them up, they will come". It hasn't worked in the past, and it won't work going forward. By now it should be obvious to everyone here.

:D


Absofreakinlutely!!!!!

Niagara Falls CA vs Niagara Falls USA..........Frank Lloyd Wright can't compete with a manufacturing plant, casino, not even a wax museum.

I don't know about anyone else but this posterity talking proud stuff needs to give way to development, investiture, lower taxes, friendlier building codes etc etc.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I don't agree. We have gone through generations under the false notion that "If you tear it down, they will come". It hasn't worked in the past, and it won't work going forward. By now it should be obvious to everyone here.

It is no longer about "If you tear it down, they will come". It is about ""If you tear it down, they may stay"!

Just look at the 1st ward. A neighborhood that is in shambles but is next door to downtown. People are leaving that neighborhood because they want to get out of the shadow of industry.

[300miles]

I don't agree. We have gone through generations under the false notion that "If you leave them up, they will come".
Sorry but no, we never lived under that notion. Take a look at what's left of the city today if you need proof. We spend 40 years tearing things down for parking lots and shovel-ready sites. The silos aren't holding anybody back because there's acres of empty space all around already.

[Save Us]

Sorry but no, we never lived under that notion. Take a look at what's left of the city today if you need proof. We spend 40 years tearing things down for parking lots and shovel-ready sites. The silos aren't holding anybody back because there's acres of empty space all around already.

Our lack of attractiveness to business and investment is much more governmental, taxes, red tape than a grain elevator.

so you are kinda right in a way.

[WNYresident]

Our lack of attractiveness to business and investment is much more governmental, taxes, red tape than a grain elevator.

so you are kinda right in a way.

That sums it up.

Other than our burden placed on us by "government inc"... why would you not want to live here? It boils down to cost of living and cost of doing business.

Our job inventory is directly effected by "cost of doing business" and red tape placed on us business owners.

I read this and thought "bull****"

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/tonyolm/5773675026/" title="Politics by tonyolm, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3654/5773675026_7d7b26c452.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="Politics"></a>

All this allows is the continued practice of tax and spend more every year.

I just checked my "added" cost of doing business on my electric bill alone.

http://www.speakupwny.com/forums/showthread.php?p=747589#post747589

[granpabob]

we took the last fifty years fighting each other. saving buildings that were no longer useful. saving silos and tearing down buildings that were falling down . and what have we gained. nothing!!!. because no one is allow to rebuild. we create empty lots and then fight over what will go there. let people build what and where they want. if the red tape was removed and the political infighting stopped. the union or nothing building rules halted . the whats in it for me attitudes and the not in my back yard fanatics ignored then maybe someone would actually start really investing in Buffalo without the tax payer having to bribe them first. many have looked at the city and built somewhere else because it takes ten years or more to get the OK from Buffalo

[Achbek1]

we took the last fifty years fighting each other. saving buildings that were no longer useful. saving silos and tearing down buildings that were falling down . and what have we gained. nothing!!!. because no one is allow to rebuild. we create empty lots and then fight over what will go there. let people build what and where they want. if the red tape was removed and the political infighting stopped. the union or nothing building rules halted . the whats in it for me attitudes and the not in my back yard fanatics ignored then maybe someone would actually start really investing in Buffalo without the tax payer having to bribe them first. many have looked at the city and built somewhere else because it takes ten years or more to get the OK from Buffalo

Yes! Listen to Grandpa Bob!

[300miles]

many have looked at the city and built somewhere else because it takes ten years or more to get the OK from Buffalo
Name one business that tried for over 10 years to build in Buffalo before going elsewhere.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Name one business that tried for over 10 years to build in Buffalo before going elsewhere.

Name one family that considered spending the summer in Detroit for vacation but decided to go to Orlando.

The only numbers that matter are:


Buffalo is shrinking in population
Buffalo is shrinking in business growth
The number of abandoned buildings are growing
The property values around these buildings are shrinking.


Point being....YOUR 'PLAN' DOES NOT WORK.

[300miles]

point being.... making up fake stats isn't going to change anyone's opinion

[Achbek1]

Name one business that tried for over 10 years to build in Buffalo before going elsewhere.

Uuuuuuuuhhhhhh... BASS... PRO.

[Achbek1]

I still say that if we painted the Historic Grain Elevators neon green and turned them into the World's Largest Petrified Goose Turd Museum... folks would come a'callin' from miles around to vacation here.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

point being.... making up fake stats isn't going to change anyone's opinion

I do not need stats. All I need is 1hr in Buffalo to know that it is going in the wrong direction and has been doing so for a very long time.

It only takes an ounce of common sense to know that all the gain elevators are never going to be reused. The BRO crowed can post as many pretty pictures as they want of what 'could' be but it is never going to happen.

Just like the fools who Ooh! and Aah! over Canal Side plans but fail to see through the pretty pictures and see it is build under a freaking skyway. One that in conveniently left out of all of those pretty drawings.

What I mentioned before and something you have no response to is the game is not about do this and they will come. It is about do this so those who live there can have a better life.

It's not like we are talking about saving some buildings that could not be built again. THERE IS NOTHING SPECIAL ABOUT THE GRAIN ELEVATORS. They have been there a long time but they are not complex to build.

Added to this, even if you could prove that saving a bit of this history is worthwhile...there is no argument I can see that says you need to save EVERY.SINGLE.ELEVATOR.

Again, as I said before, demo the ones that are not in use. Maybe save ONE as some type of museum of sorts. For the active ones, focus the resources on cleaning them up. A coat of paint and a cut lawn goes a long way with the neighbors.

But to fight the demolition of a grain elevator that is crumbling by a business that:
1- Owns the building
2- Wants to expand their business
3- Has no use for a grain elevator

Just makes you folks look batsh*t crazy and annoying. Which is why when a real gem is on the demo blocks like the building in the cobblestone (forgot the name)...people do not care as they have tuned you out.

It is about common sense, something you lack on this issue.

[300miles]

Uuuuuuuuhhhhhh... BASS... PRO.
I said "tried"... Bass Pro didn't try.
Bass Pro stalled for 10 years.

[300miles]

I still say that if we painted the Historic Grain Elevators neon green and turned them into the World's Largest Petrified Goose Turd Museum... folks would come a'callin' from miles around to vacation here.
Nice. Run with that...

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I said "tried"... Bass Pro didn't try.
Bass Pro stalled for 10 years.

Ya. That's it. They did not try at all. They spent resources as a favor to friends. Are you that dumb?

NO BUSINESS GOES ON FOR 10 YEARS WITHOUT SOME INTEREST.

Go ahead and blame it on everyone else. That's the ticket. Buffalo is the product over outsiders. 100%.

Run with that.

[300miles]

Buffalo and NYS were giving them 35 million dollars to open a store here and make them the solo anchor under BP's own conditions. They allowed BP to have control over what other stores were allowed nearby. Let's state the obvious: Bass Pro didn't open a store here because Bass Pro didn't want to open a store here, not because of red tape from the city of Buffalo.

How bout another example closer to the topic at hand. Silos were torn down so that the Senecas could erect a steel skeleton that's now a rusting hulk on the Buffalo skyline. What a great job making buffalo a better place...

This isn't really about Silos or Buffalo Red tape... it's about tearing everything down without any plan to replace it with an actual improvement in any way. When something better replaces it, then it's often OK. But most of the time it's replaced with either nothing, or worse - crap. Demolition just for the sake of demolition is not how you boost an economy. However it's a great way to wipe the city off the map.

[granpabob]

Indoor water park that tried to build on the outer harbor but could not waste its investors funds any longer and built in Erie pa.
Bass pro built many stores while buffalo kept changing the rules.
way back when the dome stadium was first proposed the city could not decide where to put it when Lancaster stepped up with a spot buffalo was forgotten. when the dome failed Buffalo was the first choice but could not decide where and who would get the credit Orchard Park got it while Buffalo was still bickering.
Most companies don't have ten years to wait so while buffalo goes through its in fighting the burbs get the business or some other state. Saturn looked hear and went south
One wonders is the university in Amherst because the state gave up dealing with buffalo politicians. the city has no one to blame for all its problems except it's own leaders. they have driven people . it might not be ten years but only because companies find another place to build long before buffalo can finish their first study

[Achbek1]

Indoor water park that tried to build on the outer harbor but could not waste its investors funds any longer and built in Erie pa.
Bass pro built many stores while buffalo kept changing the rules.
way back when the dome stadium was first proposed the city could not decide where to put it when Lancaster stepped up with a spot buffalo was forgotten. when the dome failed Buffalo was the first choice but could not decide where and who would get the credit Orchard Park got it while Buffalo was still bickering.
Most companies don't have ten years to wait so while buffalo goes through its in fighting the burbs get the business or some other state. Saturn looked hear and went south
One wonders is the university in Amherst because the state gave up dealing with buffalo politicians. the city has no one to blame for all its problems except it's own leaders. they have driven people . it might not be ten years but only because companies find another place to build long before buffalo can finish their first study

Grandpa Bob for Mayor!

[Save Us]

Name one business that tried for over 10 years to build in Buffalo before going elsewhere.

Unfortunately Buffalo and WNY have defaulted from trying to bring businesses here to just trying to keep businesses here.

I can't say that if I were in charge I would sleep better at night knowing that.

[Save Us]

I do not need stats. All I need is 1hr in Buffalo to know that it is going in the wrong direction and has been doing so for a very long time.

It only takes an ounce of common sense to know that all the gain elevators are never going to be reused. The BRO crowed can post as many pretty pictures as they want of what 'could' be but it is never going to happen.

Just like the fools who Ooh! and Aah! over Canal Side plans but fail to see through the pretty pictures and see it is build under a freaking skyway. One that in conveniently left out of all of those pretty drawings.

What I mentioned before and something you have no response to is the game is not about do this and they will come. It is about do this so those who live there can have a better life.

It's not like we are talking about saving some buildings that could not be built again. THERE IS NOTHING SPECIAL ABOUT THE GRAIN ELEVATORS. They have been there a long time but they are not complex to build.

Added to this, even if you could prove that saving a bit of this history is worthwhile...there is no argument I can see that says you need to save EVERY.SINGLE.ELEVATOR.

Again, as I said before, demo the ones that are not in use. Maybe save ONE as some type of museum of sorts. For the active ones, focus the resources on cleaning them up. A coat of paint and a cut lawn goes a long way with the neighbors.

But to fight the demolition of a grain elevator that is crumbling by a business that:
1- Owns the building
2- Wants to expand their business
3- Has no use for a grain elevator

Just makes you folks look batsh*t crazy and annoying. Which is why when a real gem is on the demo blocks like the building in the cobblestone (forgot the name)...people do not care as they have tuned you out.

It is about common sense, something you lack on this issue.

Common sense seems to be devoid from the legislature on West. 76% of people in WNY have never lived anywhere else so have nothing to compare to. They wouldn't recognize economic success, efficiency or progress if came right up and bit them in the face. But to be fair a Floridian wouldn't recognize great architecture either..In WNY we always seem to be focused on the wrong things.

[300miles]

Grandpa Bob for Mayor!
Most of the list isn't relevant.

The UB campus and Bills stadium are not private companies and the local govt had a direct hand in where they were located.

The Saturn plant... was that ever supposed to be in the city of Buffalo?? or just somewhere else in WNY.

The waterpark... I don't know anything about so I'll give him that one.

[Achbek1]

Most of the list isn't relevant.

The UB campus and Bills stadium are not private companies and the local govt had a direct hand in where they were located.

The Saturn plant... was that ever supposed to be in the city of Buffalo?? or just somewhere else in WNY.

The waterpark... I don't know anything about so I'll give him that one.

What about throwing in the Yahoo! center?

That one uppity old broad didn't want a viable, national and well-known business that would employ several local people and help the region grow to... RUIN... HER... VIEW.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

What about throwing in the Yahoo! center?

That one uppity old broad didn't want a viable, national and well-known business that would employ several local people and help the region grow to... RUIN... HER... VIEW.

There is no point with 300 outside of mocking him.

Buffalo and WNY is a dream location for companies because it has tree lined streets, historic homes from 100 years ago and an active focus on making it a bike friendly city. Even in the dead of winter.

Any business that does not want to locate in Buffalo, even after spending resources looking into it, was simply never interested.

The idea that Buffalo is prime for relocation of companies is too good of an idea and without flaw, because it preserves structures like grain elevators.

[300miles]

What about throwing in the Yahoo! center?

That one uppity old broad didn't want a viable, national and well-known business that would employ several local people and help the region grow to... RUIN... HER... VIEW.
OK, but she doesn't live in Buffalo. I thought the thread was about tearing down historic buildings in the city, not building new stuff on Mrs Mckenzie's corn field. But I agree that her lawsuit was dumb.

[WNYresident]

There is no point with 300 outside of mocking him.

Buffalo and WNY is a dream location for companies because it has tree lined streets, historic homes from 100 years ago and an active focus on making it a bike friendly city. Even in the dead of winter.

Any business that does not want to locate in Buffalo, even after spending resources looking into it, was simply never interested.

The idea that Buffalo is prime for relocation of companies is too good of an idea and without flaw, because it preserves structures like grain elevators.

It boils down to cost of doing business and red tape. AND it's basically unfair to existing businesses/tax payer in our community to give breaks to a select few without very good cause.

[300miles]

There is no point with 300 outside of mocking him.

Buffalo and WNY is a dream location for companies because it has tree lined streets, historic homes from 100 years ago and an active focus on making it a bike friendly city. Even in the dead of winter.

Any business that does not want to locate in Buffalo, even after spending resources looking into it, was simply never interested.

The idea that Buffalo is prime for relocation of companies is too good of an idea and without flaw, because it preserves structures like grain elevators.
That doesn't match up with anything I've said here. But I can understand your resorting to "mocking" (weak as it is...) since you rarely have anything else substantial to respond with.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

That doesn't match up with anything I've said here. But I can understand your resorting to "mocking" (weak as it is...) since you rarely have anything else substantial to respond with.

Yes. I have nothing substantial to respond with. You figured me out guy.

I am not the one who ignores posts because I have nothing to respond to them on. You really should spend more time on BRO with the other ignorant fools.

[300miles]

I am not the one who ignores posts because I have nothing to respond to them on.
I don't ignore posts. I ignore your posts. Because a conversation with you is like arguing with a 6-year-old on a sugar tantrum. It's really not worth my time or effort.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I don't ignore posts. I ignore your posts. Because a conversation with you is like arguing with a 6-year-old on a sugar tantrum. It's really not worth my time or effort.

Which is why you have responded to most in this thread. Selectively ignoring the ones that you have no answer.

Look guy. No skin off my back. While I love Buffalo, I love it from a distance. You're the one who has to live in it day to day.

When I come home for a visit, I will make sure to buy a pack of gum at the new Rite-Aid and laugh at Canal Side when I go on the lake. I will head to New Era to buy a new cap and park in one of the many parking lots downtown so I do not have to walk too far. If I am feeling lucky, I may go play the slots at the casino. That's still open right?

[WNYresident]

Kids :)

I'm sorry for starting this thread.

My opinion is they are eye sores.

Go search google and you'll will see most concrete grain storage silo's do not get used, they get torn down. WHY? Because it's the SMART thing to do because reuse cost for the most part is prohibitive. The few that are thrown around as examples of reuse are far and few between.

[mnb811]

A great new job creating venture could be demolition outfits,dynamite companies and the like. We could create jobs while blowing the hell out of all the grain elevators, closed shopping malls, derelict buildings, closed mfg. plants and the like.

Then when all that is done we can create jobs by starting tree farms and the like by restoring the land the way it was before man even touched it! Now thats what I call "real" preservation and history while creating jobs!!!!!!:D

[Achbek1]

Kids :)


My opinion is they are eye sores.



http://i1.allaboutvision.com/i/me/co0047-200x166.jpg

[Chet Kowal]

Then when all that is done we can create jobs by starting tree farms and the like by restoring the land the way it was before man even touched it! Now thats what I call "real" preservation and history while creating jobs!!!!!!:D

Big, fat gold star to you, for having a serious and sensible suggestion !

[Dougles]

My wife and I just went kayaking down by the harbor and the grain elevators are the ugliest things out there. Tear them down!

[300miles]

I took some out-of-state friends kayaking down there last summer and they thought the silos were really cool.

[WNYresident]

I took some out-of-state friends kayaking down there last summer and they thought the silos were really cool.


They were cool at one time.. not now.. if they were so cool why isn't there some developer asking to buy them and turn them into something?

Leave them sit there because the community can't afford to spend millions to remove them. And even if the federal government made other people pay to have them removed the land would prob sit vacant for a long time.

Let's say it cost 5 million to remove a group of towers.. divide that by the property owners in buffalo and would they really see a return on investment? Probably not. Only company that would profit is the politically connected construction company that would get the contract to tear them down.

[300miles]

They were cool at one time.. not now.. if they were so cool why isn't there some developer asking to buy them and turn them into something?
Probably for the same reasons other sites in buffalo sit dormant. Look how long it took to get the Statler going again and that was with everyone in the city, county, and state pushing for someone to buy it. You fully support re-using the Statler.


Leave them sit there because the community can't afford to spend millions to remove them. And even if the federal government made other people pay to have them removed the land would prob sit vacant for a long time.

Let's say it cost 5 million to remove a group of towers.. divide that by the property owners in buffalo and would they really see a return on investment? Probably not. Only company that would profit is the politically connected construction company that would get the contract to tear them down.
I never said I wanted them torn down :)
It would be a waste of money and a huge loss for Buffalo's culture.

[WNYresident]

Those grain mills have nothing to do with Buffalo Culture any more. Used to..

[300miles]

That's like saying Irish Culture has nothing to do with a 5th-generation Irish-American anymore. "Used to..." It is only what we make of it. If Buffalo is foolish enough to throw away its own culture to be replaced by generic-anywhere-USA, then that's the mistake it has the right to make. But judging how Canalside has evolved and buildings like the Statler and Lafayette are being saved, I'd say there are enough people here that know the value of our own real local culture.

[WNYresident]

Be realistic. "replaced by generic-anywhere-USA" has already been done in Amherst, Lancaster, Cheektowaga and so on... You can thank the developers and weak minded/self serving town boards for that. Some stuff needs to be let go because the cost to the community exceeds any value they may get in return. Let the towers sit there until they are a pile of sand but don't take millions from the people in buffalo to remove them so some developer can profit from it and get IDA breaks.

I think it's good that the Statler/lafayette are being used. I don't believe they should be given grants and tax breaks on property/school taxes. I don't see an issue with waving once shot type taxes like sales tax on remodeling or fees... But then every business in the community should get the same exact discounts and fees...

If you wave property taxes there is no return to the community for the duration of the property tax breaks. That is unfair to everyone else in the community. Don't give me bs about "well they will generate sales tax because there are businesses there". Our population is not growing so any dollar the Statler takes is a dollar another local business loses. You do understand that don't you?

To keep "Irish Culture" doesn't cost the community millions to keep alive as would sinking money into something like that grain towers.

[Dougles]

I took some out-of-state friends kayaking down there last summer and they thought the silos were really cool.

They silo's themselves are... but the water line and the old buildings that are falling into the Buffalo river are nasty!

They should atleast take down the silo's on the opposite side of the river by where you launch the Kayak's, the ones just north of General Mills.

[300miles]

A new park opened on the riverbank a few weeks ago, and another park nearby is already in the planning stages. Eventually those parks will be continuous to the Canalside harbor area.

The ugliness is a temporary condition that can be fixed while keeping the silos in place.

[300miles]

Be realistic. "replaced by generic-anywhere-USA" has already been done in Amherst, Lancaster, Cheektowaga and so on... You can thank the developers and weak minded/self serving town boards for that.
Exactly. And people in Buffalo don't appreciate that blandness being pushed into the city as well. Buffalo wants to keep its unique character. Just because places like Amherst are generic anywhere-USA doesn't mean we should spread the blandness throughout WNY.

[Dougles]

3551

I'm talking about the ones by the Buffalo Marina, the ones in the background of this picture.

Also, take down the Skyway and the falling down building south of the Gen Mills building.

[300miles]

Aren't the ones you want torn down (cuz they don't look pretty enough) still being used?

[WNYresident]

Exactly. And people in Buffalo don't appreciate that blandness being pushed into the city as well. Buffalo wants to keep its unique character. Just because places like Amherst are generic anywhere-USA doesn't mean we should spread the blandness throughout WNY.

I'll point out your mistake.


Buffalo wants to keep its unique character

Only a small segment of the entire community does. If "Buffalo" (fill in any town in WNY) as a whole wanted to keep their unique character they would have started years ago.. Not after the developers cashed out by moving businesses from the city to the burbs with the use if "economic development IDA BS". They would have never put the 33 through the heart of a nieghborhood and the subway would have never had the money wasted on it. You would think by now people would start to see what hurt our community.

[WNYresident]

Aren't the ones you want torn down (cuz they don't look pretty enough) still being used?

I'm referring to the ones that are abandoned. If any are being used and paying property taxes god bless them for being able to survive in the economic environment the controlling political parties have created in NYS/local government.

[Dougles]

Aren't the ones you want torn down (cuz they don't look pretty enough) still being used?

The ones in the back right of the pic? I dont' think so, i've never seen anyone over there except to get in a boat.

[300miles]

I'm referring to the ones that are abandoned. If any are being used and paying property taxes god bless them for being able to survive in the economic environment the controlling political parties have created in NYS/local government.
but you want to use up tax dollars to tear down the abandoned ones? What benefit does that serve? So we have even more shovel-ready sites next the other shovel-ready sites that are already there?

[300miles]

The ones in the back right of the pic? I dont' think so, i've never seen anyone over there except to get in a boat.
OK. maybe not those.

[WNYresident]

but you want to use up tax dollars to tear down the abandoned ones? What benefit does that serve? So we have even more shovel-ready sites next the other shovel-ready sites that are already there?

I don't think tax dollars should be used. I meant in general they should be torn down either by a developer who buys them or someone who wants to spend their own money.

I personally see no return at all for anyone currently alive benefiting from pissing away tax money on them.