BTF tool, Ralph Hernandez

[morphinebrian]

http://buffalonews.com/editorial/20040712/1027250.asp

The two people running for schoolboard in the West District had their petitions invalidated, so the BTF found the schlep to run as a write-in. I don't think he is even trying to look like he gives a damn about the students and parents, just the friggin' teacher's union.

[WNYresident]

How does one petition get invalidated? Does the opposing political party pick these apart to get them invalidated?

[morphinebrian]

Both people got enough signitures on their opponents petition invalidated to invalidate the entire petition. They both got about 60 more signitures than they needed, and bot got about 80 invalidate (resulting in 20 under). The result was a write-in election. The BTF saw this as their opprotunity because it is easy to win a write in election (for obvious reasons). They had union members outside eash polling place with palm cards saying Ralph Hernandez was their endorsed candidate. The person just went in and wrote down his name. He won with 400 votes.

[WNYresident]

So the union basically controled the election.

[pgduffy]

To tell the truth we both invalidated each others petitions. My campaign offered a deal not to challege Susan Brennan's petitions in return for the Brennan campaign not to challenge mine (Patricia G. Duffy). This way there would be an honest and fair fight for the School Board seat. The deal wasn't agreed to thus I gave the go ahead to challenge.

Not many people were willing to go out a limb and help me thus most of my signatures were personally attained by me. Most people we leary of offending Al DeBenedetti whose support he gave to my opponent without even answering any of my phone calls. Thus, my inability to get enough valid signatures allowed for entry into the race.

The BTF was looking for someone who would rescind the charter plan. Being a private school principal, a children first advocate, and supporter of the renaissance plan I had no chance in securing their support even though my uncle was BTF president before Phil. In addition, I am an independent person who would never compromise my principles of putting kids first and taking marching orders from anyone but my mother (lol)!

Thus, I shoulder the responsibility of this potential plan being voted down.

[morphinebrian]

I voted for you!

[pgduffy]

well thank you for voting for me. If Sue and I were the only two the race would have been close. The preliminary vote total was a difference of 1 vote in her favor.

If Ralph does not do a good job I will have to step up again if no one else does.

Patti

[morphinebrian]

Well he isn't getting off to a good start!

[WNYresident]

Questions:


They both got about 60 more signitures than they needed, and bot got about 80 invalidate (resulting in 20 under).

For starters how many total signatures does one need to get on the ballot? I would like to know the percentage of invalid signatures that were gotten.

What invalidates a signature? Is it 80 signatures out of 300 or 1000, 2000 ? Is the invalidation caused by a misleading signer or by a mistake by the person collecting the signatures.


The BTF saw this as their opprotunity because it is easy to win a write in election (for obvious reasons). They had union members outside eash polling place with palm cards saying Ralph Hernandez was their endorsed candidate. The person just went in and wrote down his name. He won with 400 votes.



If this is true why don't you guys do a write in canidate and save all your time from doing the petition. That could be time doing things to get the candiate known and tell people (network) why the canidate is better. Then do the same as the union.. hand out palm cards as they do with better reasons on why to vote for your canidate?

You could even setup a small display with the exact reasons why your guy is better to vote for than thier guy. If a person hasn't made up thier mind or prepared to acutally vote for that person, a palm card and some awarness could sell them on the spot.



To tell the truth we both invalidated each others petitions. My campaign offered a deal not to challege Susan Brennan's petitions in return for the Brennan campaign not to challenge mine (Patricia G. Duffy). This way there would be an honest and fair fight for the School Board seat. The deal wasn't agreed to thus I gave the go ahead to challenge.


So you want an honest and fair fight but you both discussed overlooking invalid signatures if you both knew you both would. So you both would of let an unhonest petition sneak through if you both knew neither would question it.

Wouldn't you take the time from discussing "the deal" and just get enough valid signatures to begin with. But in this case you flinched first to try to prove her petition didn't meet the minimums to be on the ballat. But you acutally had invalid petition also to start with?

But if you wanted to you could be a write in canidate and completely by pass this step?



Not many people were willing to go out a limb and help me thus most of my signatures were personally attained by me. Most people we leary of offending Al DeBenedetti whose support he gave to my opponent without even answering any of my phone calls. Thus, my inability to get enough valid signatures allowed for entry into the race.

How many people were on your team for your campaign?


The BTF was looking for someone who would rescind the charter plan. Being a private school principal, a children first advocate, and supporter of the renaissance plan I had no chance in securing their support even though my uncle was BTF president before Phil. In addition, I am an independent person who would never compromise my principles of putting kids first and taking marching orders from anyone but my mother (lol)!

If you don't mind me asking are you currently a private school principal with a solid track record versus the person who won. What does that person do for a living that won the seat?

[morphinebrian]

You needed, I beleive, 400 signitures to be on the ballot. There are a ton of reasons why a signiture could be invalidated.

Say someone signs a petition for an office, and then signs someone elses running for the same office, The 2nd one gets invalidated. Say someone moved and didn't switch over there address for the board of elections and signed with the new address. Invalidated. Say someone was unregistered but signed, invalidated. Say someone got married, kept the maiden name for her voter registration, but signed with the married name, invalidated. You usually try to get 50% over because such a high number gets invalidated.

The reason you don't do the write in is because it would be almost impossible to win against someone on the ballot.

If you ever petitioned before, you would know what a pain it is. The city is especially hard because of the high rate of people moving without switching there voter registration.

[pgduffy]

"For starters how many total signatures does one need to get on the ballot? I would like to know the percentage of invalid signatures that were gotten"


500 valid signatures


"What invalidates a signature? Is it 80 signatures out of 300 or 1000, 2000 ? Is the invalidation caused by a misleading signer or by a mistake by the person collecting the signatures."

Various reasons. I personally collected about 400 signatures going door to door. I would not be able to tell if they were valid or not unless they said they were not registered to vote or they were not old enough, Then I would not get their signature.


Why not do wite in? - doing a write in against someone who is on the ballot is vitually impossible to win. I did not even know that I could do a write in until Phil Rumore told me that Ralph was going to do so.



"So you want an honest and fair fight but you both discussed overlooking invalid signatures if you both knew you both would. So you both would of let an unhonest petition sneak through if you both knew neither would question it."


I wouldn't say letting an unhonest petition sneak in. I would not have used the computer at the Board of Elections to check each and every signature for several days.

As far as flinched. I didn't flinch. My campaign manager posed the question to my opponents'camp. They did not agree, I challenged because the odds were good I could knock her off knowing full well that the odds were also good that I would be knocked off as well. I could not leave myself unprotected.


My campaign team was made of 4 people with others representing groups who said they would help get petitions. Chalk that one up to my inexperience.

Ralph I believe works for the State of New York in some kind of investigator capacity for one of the state departments.

[WNYresident]

So ralph then really dones't have any real world experience except for working for the state. IE a government agency?

[pgduffy]

Originally posted by WNYresident
So ralph then really dones't have any real world experience except for working for the state. IE a government agency?

I really don't know what his educational background is so I cannot comment.

[WNYresident]

Wouldn't you have to know your competition in order to beat them wether it's business or politics? So Ralph has to have some qualification otherwise why would even the union back him? OR is this a case of the union using a person as a puppet?

[pgduffy]

"If you don't mind me asking are you currently a private school principal with a solid track record versus the person who won. What does that person do for a living that won the seat?

A solid track record of leadership and success yes. Catholic Central School's is the Catholic schools' success story equivalent to the BPS Westminster without the $$$. Within 4 years my staff, parents, and kids have turned our school around. Mine is an inner city school comprised of African American and African Asylee children that has a 100% free and reduced lunch count. That means it is the poorest of the poor yet 83% of my 4th graders passed their ELA and last results in 4th grade were 100%. We are wiping away any local school be it charter or BPS.

[pgduffy]

Ok - my opponent did not have any real life educational experience in the trenches. As far as a purely educational background I am light years ahead on both pedagogy and day to day school experience. My education and urban experience is light years ahead of anyone else that ran including the person who has a doctorate. He also worked at PIC

I could not say whether he was a mouthpiece for the BTF. West Side politics is always interesting where people change sides and backstab everday. One day you are the golden child and another day you are not.

[WNYresident]

West Side politics is always interesting where people change sides and backstab everday. One day you are the golden child and another day you are not.


It's because they are more worried about thierselves versus the community. My belief is we currently have quite a few of the wrong type of people in WNY politics. We need leaders with the community in mind, not the special interest groups. The only special interest group they represent is the community.

[morphinebrian]

I beleive he is a tool of the BTF. He was given the election to do everything he could do to stop the District Charters. That was the deal he cut. He doesn't care what the parents want and the students need. The only reason he beat P Duffy and S Brennan's petitions is because when it became a write-in, Quintana and Turcharelli jumped on board because they had a chance. So you had the 4 way split on those votes, while all the votes controlled by the teachers union went to Hernandez. Quintana and Turcharelli didn't even bother with a platform for christ's sake! Who is Ralph Hernandez and what qualifies him to be on the Board. Duffy is someone with both the experience that is needed, and the point of view that I, and most residents, agree with when it comes to Charters.

I have, if anyone has followed my posts on this website, been a supporter of unions. There is a fundamental difference, though, between picking up the garbage and teaching our kids. This isn't about money or taxes, it is about a failed school district and ways to improve it. I don't want this a$$hole to stop the District charters from forming and wasting away another generation of Buffalo's students so the teachers can keep the comforts of their jobs.

The future of Buffalo is directly linked to the state of its school system. Failed schools = Failed Buffalo

[kev1616]

My name is Kevin Lafferty, I was a candidate for the Park District rep to the Bflo Board of Education. I am a new member to this message board. I was reading through and I saw this posting.

I was the youngest memeber in the race and I think that people respected me for getting involved at such a young age. My views of public education were not very popular city wide, I was opposed to the district sponsored charter schools. I was opposed because it was a system that had to many flaws in it to be the silver bullet remedy to the education crisis in the city school district. I felt that we did not have enough information, regardless what the incumbency on the Board said and regardless of what those in favor said about the information we had about charters. I still think in the end we are creating a class based educational system where we are going to see schools so racially divided that it will mirror the mess we were in the 1960's and 1970's. I was lucky enough to a campaign of strong issues against a powerhouse of an opponent, the sitting School Board President. I managed to gather 44% of the vote and I was quite pleased with the outcome.

Now, that I am finished with my mini-rant. I was interested in the comments about Ralph Hernandez. During the campaign we shared the endorsement of the school unions, I was proud to carry that endorsement as I come from a family that has strong union ties, my great grandfather was a good friend to Samuel Gompers, probably the most famous union leaders in history. Anyways, Ralph and I shared many of the same opinions, even his proposal of a 3 years moratorium and a committee to study charter schools come from an idea I had before he was in the race. I was unhappy with Ralph joining as a "write in" candidate. I, like Patty (by the way, hello Patty...congrats on a strong campaign..hope everything is going good), Jack Coyle, and the other candidates who walked the streets and banged on doors to get their petitions signed. I was only in the race for about a month and two weeks and I worked my tail off to get on that ballot. Ralph Hernandez did not, he took the road less traveled and went in as a write in.

I am interested in what everyone else thinks about that aspect of the argument and I pose this question. Should "write in" candidates be allowed to run or should the "write in" be used in case something happens, like on the West Side. My theory is that write in candidates downplay all the hard work by those candidates who work to get the signatures and get out there and meet the people.

Ok, I am done now (I have not written that much since college :))

[WNYresident]

During the campaign we shared the endorsement of the school unions

I find this wrong. The edorsement is from the community. Any endorsement from a special interest group is because they will benefit from the person they are endorsing. People should vote for what is good for the community not what is better for the endorsee. IE the union. SHould the kids interest come first before the unions best interest?

[Night Owl]

Any endorsement from a special interest group is because they will benefit from the person they are endorsing.

We see a lot of 'special interest' groups supporting politicians just to see what is in it for themselves.

I agree with WNYresident, the children's best interest should come first... above and beyond an endorsements.

[kev1616]

No matter how much you try to mask the school board is a political body. A Union endorsement is equivalent to a party endorsement. I was proud to carry the union endorsement, was I going to be a puppet of the unions, no!

I was my own candidate, who went to the endorsement meeting like everyone else, they agreed with what I believed...but in saying that I would have been my own person with my own vote and my own philosophy. Do I agree with everything Phil Rumore thinks, no I do not. I disagree with many positions the BTF takes. The negotiations are taking place right now, I would have negotiated just like Jack Coyle is negotiating now, the city is in ruin and there is a wage freeze..the unions need to understand that.
However, teachers are on the front lines, they are charged with a responsibilty of providing an education in the face of budget cuts and lay offs. Teachers are as important to the process as Board of Ed members. and should be treated as such. That is why I was proud to carry the union endorsement.

[morphinebrian]

So your solution is to stay with the same flawed school system. I have some information for you : the schools are already racially divided, minorities in the city and whites in the suburbs. Do you want to know why that is? Because the schools in the city are mostly ****! The district Charters would have given Buffalo an opprotunity to restructure its school system to reflect the needs of the students. The BTF does not want to hear that though, because they really enjoy the status quo.

If I were running, I would rather choose the side where the parents were, not the teachers.

How can anyone want to stay with the status quo with the Buffalo schools. Will it take a thousand more drop-outs? How many more illeterate teens? Kev1616, how do you think the Buffalo schools could improve without the district charters.

[pgduffy]

This is what I like an open discussion.

Hi Kevin - I'm doing well - running an SES program with Buffalo Public Schools kids who attended failing schools in the district. You keep it up and run again next time. You ran a good issues orientated campaign.

Kevin - my opinion based on the question you posed about "write ins" is to leave it in there. We live in a democracy and anyone should have the right to run for elective office.

Kevin you should be proud to get the union backing. Had I been vehementaly against charters I would have had a shot at getting the Union backing from the BTF et. al. I was excited when I got the backing from the Partnership and endorsed by the Buffalo News. Although, had I been anit-charter I would not have received the backing of either.

Just think - my uncle was Tom Pisa - BTF President before Phil and former NEA-NY President. I grew up on his knees and had been around the BTF leadership since I was a little girl. And I am on polar opposites in my adulthood.

[kev1616]

Patty, I am keeping my options open for any race I can enter where I think I can make a difference. I am going to keep a close eye on the school districts...even though I dont think that we have all the knowledge about charters, I wish the Board good luck in their up coming terms.

In repsonse to our discussion about "write-in's"...we do live in a democracy and any should be able to run but I think the way they connect voters is going out and making physical contact with the electorate and working to get on a ballot...I can agree with write in candidates because they dont do that...they dont fight to get on the ballot but thats just my theory on the democratic process...half the battle is campaigning to get on the ballot and then campaigning to win the election. We worked hard to get those signatures and he did not...for the record I am also against giving the mayor an appointment on the board.

[morphinebrian]

Patti-
I think you are letting Kevin off light. I don't think you can compare a BTF endorsement with a Buffalo News endorsement and a Partnership endorsement. While the News and Partnership tend to side on the political right, they are honost brokers in comparison to the BTF, who has a vested interest in only the teachers. The News and Partnership, on the otherhand, only has a vested interest in the betterment of the community (though, they tend to be biased toward the political right).

The reason I beleive this 3-year wait that Hernandez put forward, to study the Charter project, is to effectively kill it. Look how long we have been studying the Peace Bridge for christ's sakes? I beleive that it is the best, politically feaseable idea put forward on how to help the city schools. I don't beleive waiting and accepting the status quo is an option. If someone had a better idea, I would support it. As far as Kevin's concerns on the charters, they are valid and correct. But the pros, I beleive, outweigh the cons.

Charter schools are coming to the city, whether the BTF likes it or not. District charters will give the city the opprotunity to have schools that aid the students the best. Without them, we will create a system where charters come in and directly compete with our schools. I beleive if teachers really cared about the students, they would choose the system that best aids them.

[pgduffy]

I also believe the moratorium is a means to end this Renaissance Plan. Yes, the BTF is there for their constituency first - teachers first - that is their job. When I went before the 9 unions and the endorsement process I was the only one who stood up and said I was for the plan because it is State law and they are going to be here anyway. I also told them what I tell my teachers - the kids come first, the teachers second, and me last. If this moratorium is passed you are going to see the last of the traditional public schools because parents will put their children in charters. It's better to work with them to ensure all of children are educated and have some local control over the charters.


Charters are killing my school - Catholic Central - I just can't compete with a free education. But that doesn't preclude me for favoring them just because I run a Catholic School.

[pgduffy]

The other item - these people who are on the Board should have already been familiar with this proposal because this was the major issue in the School Board Race. I do not take as an excuse that it needs to be studied. It has been and if these people do not know what is in it, then what conclusion can you draw from it.

[morphinebrian]

Patti-
If you decide to run again for schoolboard again, sign me up as your first supporter!

[kev1616]

Charters are killing my school - Catholic Central - I just can't compete with a free education. But that doesn't preclude me for favoring them just because I run a Catholic School.

Patty, I am interested to know what diocese thinks of Charters. Do you think they are opposed to them? I have spoken to leader in catholic schools and they are fearful of them. They are afraid doors will be closed and jobs will be lost. It is a concern among catholic schools, especially principals

In response to: While the News and Partnership tend to side on the political right, they are honost brokers in comparison to the BTF, who has a vested interest in only the teachers.

The Buffalo is an objective source, I will give you that, but the Partnership is an organization that did not list any education objectives in its goals for 2004. To say they care more about the students then teachers is an unfair comparison.

[Curmudgeon]

Patty, I am interested to know what diocese thinks of Charters. Do you think they are opposed to them? I have spoken to leader in catholic schools and they are fearful of them. They are afraid doors will be closed and jobs will be lost. It is a concern among catholic schools, especially principals

So, there is an industry (catholic schools) that supply a product (education) for a fee, even though the govenment already provides the same service for free at taxpayer expense.

People find the current government-provided education service (BPS/BTF) so dismal, they willingly pay for something they already get for free.

Now, there is an effort to reform the current public education system through the implementation of charter schools.

The catholic school system is concerned that the reform may actually work, making their product superflourous!

Reforming public education will have dire consequences for many stakeholders. The availability of quality education for free as a dangerous idea and should be stopped at once! Charter schools are a destabilizing menace and they should be studied for at least 12 years before any decisions are made...

[morphinebrian]

Catholic Schools should be afraid of them...a good education for free in the city of Buffalo?

Do you think it is fair that in order to get a good education in the city, parents have to pay? I feel bad that people will get layed off, but I feel worse for the students who aren't receiving a quality education, and the parents trying to provide one.

I don't think this is fair. This, more than any single reason, is the reason for the cities blight. If you can't attract middleclass families with children to live in the city, you cause low housing prices. Low housing prices lead to low tax revenue. Low tax revenue leads to decreased services across the board.

I can't afford to worry about a teacher who will have to take a paycut and work more hours when I see this sitsuation. How can anybody? All I see are families trying to struggle to earn half of what teachers get, and lacking the means to lift themselves out. I see families that can't afford to leave the city to get their kids to a good school. And you are worried about teachers layoffs. What about the common good?

[Night Owl]

Reforming public education will have dire consequences for many stakeholders. The availability of quality education for free as a dangerous idea and should be stopped at once! Charter schools are a destabilizing menace and they should be studied for at least 12 years before any decisions are made...

I don't know about anyone else, but I am sure glad to see Curmudgeon back in action. ;)

So, there is an industry (catholic schools) that supply a product (education) for a fee, even though the govenment already provides the same service for free at taxpayer expense..

The industry that supplies education for a price (as what is being discussed here) is 'faith-based' and people pay a fee for catholic education. I forget when the actual ruling was in the New York history books, but during the seperation of church & state, faith of any kind can not be performed/taught in public schools. So, churches began their own schooling and people pay the price for it, they don't 'have' to, but if it's by thier choice then they will. That is the seperation of charters and catholic schools.

[Curmudgeon]

And you are worried about teachers layoffs. What about the common good?

My previous post was in fun - I could care less about layoffs.

I was pointing out the irony that there's an entity out there that will suffer if the public school system is improved...

Kind of like drug dealers being terrified of drug-legalization legislation: legalizing drugs put them out of business.

I heard the National Association of Indoor Marijuana Growers (NAIMG) gave $50,000 to the Bush campaign recently for continued support of marijuana prohibition.

[citymouse]

Does any one think that maybe some parents want thier children to recive a Catholic education with Catholic values?
There are a few catholics left in Buffalo who feel this is important enough to pay for. All my children are products of catholic schools and I payed dearly for it. It was never imagined they would go anywhere else.
Looking back I would do the same thing all over again. I wanted them to know thier religon and it's philosophy and felt one hour a week in RI did not cut it.
I later realized that in public schools they don't teach right from wrong and that is why they have the problems they have.
It begins and ends with the parents, but if the parents are willing to make the financial sacrafice then they obviously care enough about the kids education to re-enforce what he is taught in school as well as to give the child the basics at home to help him to suceed in school.
Probably why catholic schools are superior to public schools academically.

[WNYresident]

Do you think it is fair that in order to get a good education in the city, parents have to pay?


I'll take slack for this. Why do people think other people should always pay for what they need? You have a family that has 7 kids, the family makes a living to survive but they demand the government to pay for the best education for thier kids?

I say public schools should give a fair education but not the best. THe best is what you pay for and if the tax payer is going to pay give them a fair/good education, but not the best.

[WNYresident]

All my children are products of catholic schools and I payed dearly for it.

Think about what you acutally paid and if you think about it, it wasn't all that dear when compared to the cost per student in a public school.

I think they should have a tax credit when you send your kids to a private school. If your not using the system but elected to use another you get a credit. Your still spending money for education but it's not going through the status quo education system. Your still providing jobs, you just not providing the unions jobs.

[absolivious]

Originally posted by WNYresident
...
I think they should have a tax credit when you send your kids to a private school. ...just not providing the unions jobs..
That is exactly what "the voucher system" is all about and the the only opposition comes from within the NEA, BTF ...etc. :(

[WNYresident]

I later realized that in public schools they don't teach right from wrong and that is why they have the problems they have.


Would you bring back nice heavy paddles? I remember them and I respected the person wielding them. They sort of held you acccountable for your actions. I did have one person tell me once that you can lower a childs esteem by paddling them. I bet the same person thinks drugs is a sickness. I view stuff like that as a weakness.

[morphinebrian]

If you honestly beleive the reason Catholic Schools are better academically is because of teaching Catholic vales, I suggest you look into the Charter School People Inc. wants to open, because you obviously are retarded. I hate stupid **** like that. Catholics believe you should forgive every crime (even molesting preists). I am an atheist, so I therefore accept my actions as not without forgiveness, and take responsiblity for my actions. Relious people just do bad stuff, pray, and then think everything is OK.

I wouldn't ever send a kid to a school that teaches creationism, because it is so ridicously stupid.

As far as WNYresident comment that public schools should only provide a fair school system...That will lead to America having a fair economy, not the World leader. Do you think businesses want to hire Americans who are being taught fairly, or foreigners being taught exceptionally. Furthurmore, can you think of another service that people switch municipalities because of. People move from Buffalo to Amherst because of its schools. Middleclass families with kids make a more attractive neighborhood for people without kids and seniors - leading to higher assessed values and higher tax revenues! Paying for good schools is not only morrally correct, it is an investment in the present (via home values) and future (strong workforce).

I beleive parents know what is best for a child, and each child is a unique person. A one size fits all school system lumps all chilldren together, not taking into account individuals needs. While some students need a strong teacher who can use a paddle, to assume it is a cure for all childrens misbehavior isn't correct. Only a parent can make the choice of what is best for his/her child. I beleive we should have a variety of schools to choose from in the public education system that can best suit a child's needs,as I see fit. If I have a child who needs to be disciplined more, I want to send my child to a school that does that. If I have a child that reacts badly to that, it would just make the problem worse.

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by absolivious
That is exactly what "the voucher system" is all about and the the only opposition comes from within the NEA, BTF ...etc. :(

I would rather see twice as many people working at a medium wage than 1/2 the amount of money at a high wage.

[WNYresident]

As far as WNYresident comment that public schools should only provide a fair school system...That will lead to America having a fair economy, not the World leader. Do you think businesses want to hire Americans who are being taught fairly, or foreigners being taught exceptionally.

What the point of being the world leader when you have a lot of people that can't make ends meet?

What is the point of being the world leader if millions of families have to have two parents working to survive.

Whats the point of being the world leader if people are forced to move out of thier homes because they can't afford the property taxes generated by our need to be a world leader.

You sort of get my point about this.

[WNYresident]

That will lead to America having a fair economy, not the World leader. Do you think businesses want to hire Americans who are being taught fairly, or foreigners being taught exceptionally.

They will hire the people that strive to be the best. The ones that can afford to go to private institutions. Life isn't fair and you can't provide the best for everyone. Everyone can't afford it.

[morphinebrian]

Its not much more expensive to provide a quality education to everyone. The largest stumbling block is not financial, but the Union contract, the summers off, the fragmented system of schools (consolidate county public schools, bring in charters and possibly vouchers). Bring in more financial oversight in the running of school systems. For all the talk of the corrupt governments on this site, what about curropt school systems? It is because of people like Ralph Hernandez and the BTF that are schools aren't improving, not the money. The money is there, it is just not being spent efficiently!

Americans aren't making ends meet because of three reasons:
1) Illegal immigration driving down wages
2) The difficulty getting accesss to higher education for adults in the workforce (particularly when they have kids)
3) most americans have trouble saying "I can't afford this (fill in the blank)

You don't need two parents working to survive if they are willing to give up their large screen TV, 2nd car, and DVD player.

[Night Owl]

A one size fits all school system lumps all chilldren together, not taking into account individuals needs.

You hit the nail on the head. This is where the Buffalo schools are going wrong. Now, there were people running for school board whom were more concerned with 'acquring' the endorsement of the union than what is needed in the schools/for the kids.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMO-

I'd like to see a show of hands by those who ran that actually went into an inner city school while campaigning to ask the kids what could be done to make education at their school better.
In doing something like that... then a person running for school board can say "I'm concerned for the children's education" and the kids get the chance to see that people are willing to be their voice in the process.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Life isn't fair and you can't provide the best for everyone. Everyone can't afford it.

If a parent wants a better education for their children, they will work 2 jobs if they have to, to make catholic schooling possible for their kids. It all depends on how much they'll work for it.

[pgduffy]

"I'd like to see a show of hands by those who ran that actually went into an inner city school while campaigning to ask the kids what could be done to make education at their school better.
In doing something like that... then a person running for school board can say "I'm concerned for the children's education" and the kids get the chance to see that people are willing to be their voice in the process. "

I'll tell you what the kids want - I ask them. They want a teacher that listens to them, they want to know that their teacher and principal care, and they want to know that they are safe and someone is going to do something if they are picked upon.

this is based on the conversations I have with my kids as well as those public school kids are in our SES program currently.

i'll tell yuo what they parents want - They want to know that there kids are safe, being educated, and that someone listens to them and takes action when they have complaints.

[pgduffy]

"If a parent wants a better education for their children, they will work 2 jobs if they have to, to make catholic schooling possible for their kids. It all depends on how much they'll work for it."


not everyone can do that. Right now I have a job that doesn't allow for me to hol another one (Principal ata Catholic School). I can afford it right now but I will not be able to do it for high school unless I go to a public school. It's either that of I have to move out of the city which I love.

[pgduffy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by morphinebrian
[B]Its not much more expensive to provide a quality education to everyone. The largest stumbling block is not financial, but the Union contract, the summers off, the fragmented system of schools (consolidate county public schools, bring in charters and possibly vouchers). Bring in more financial oversight in the running of school systems. For all the talk of the corrupt governments on this site, what about curropt school systems? It is because of people like Ralph Hernandez and the BTF that are schools aren't improving, not the money. The money is there, it is just not being spent efficiently!

QUOTE]

Yes there a many impediments both contractually with unions and also mandates and laws through the State governemnt. This is why I find charters so appealing as a professional. they run on litle interference like the Catholic Schools. My faulty and I can be creative. I can allow for my school day to be longer, I can get help for my students and their families without running into interference. I can select grant rpograms to implement which will only benefit children more without teachers voting it down.

A case in point. My children at Catholic Central were entitled to participate in a Federal Reading program through the BPS. I went ballistic when I found out we could not participate in that because my cohort public schools were not taking part in this.

For God's sake who in their right mind would turn down a reading program with monies for supplies, books, insturction, and staff development. Only in Buffalo New York. At one particular Buffalo Public School, with a large esl population, the teachers also voted it down when the principal wanted it so dearly to improve the education of the students there. My daughter actually was a casuality in this one.

[WNYresident]

Its not much more expensive to provide a quality education to everyone.

I believe you mentioned the best education, you didn't say a quality education. A quality education is fine but don't expect a tax payer to provide the same quality education you would get at Yale or Harvard.

[Night Owl]

I'll tell you what the kids want - I ask them. They want a teacher that listens to them, they want to know that their teacher and principal care, and they want to know that they are safe and someone is going to do something if they are picked upon.

this is based on the conversations I have with my kids as well as those public school kids are in our SES program currently.

Not one person came knocking at my front door while campaigning asking "as a city resident and registered voter, what would you like done to help improve education in the city schools?"

Not one parent I know said that they got a campaign phone asking ""as a parent and registered voter, what would you like done to help improve education in the city schools?"

IMO- You may have asked what kids are interested in within your own school that you work for, catholic educated kids have different outlooks as those in the inner city. Did you go South Park high school to ask those kids there? What about an elementary school near downtown?

You might be suprized to hear the difference. Some might say they want to see less fights and see less police being called to their school because of stabbings or what ever.

Some might tell you, they'd like to see more disciplinary methods being used for kids that constantly disrupt a classroom making it harder for the teacher to teach the rest of the students.

How many kids have you asked in your our 'catholic system' of principaling have said something like that? If that was something you've heard in which was of importantance, you would have mentioned it in the first reply post above the point of... quote: "They want a teacher that listens to them".

[pgduffy]

My school and kids are in the inner city. They are not your typical Catholic Schools kids. My school is located and my kids live in the shooting galleries on the Near East Side. Parents and kids are afraid their kids may be shot as we had 6 shootings in a one week period within half a mile radius of my school. You didn't see me pleading with my young men, some of whom hung out with these gang members shooting each other, to stay away from them because I don't want to attend a funeral. My kids live in the projects on the lower West side. My kids are African asylees who have seen parents and relatives killed or maimed in front of them durig the tribal wars in Africa. I'm talking about hands cut off, beheadings and the such. On graduation night one young man came in crying because his cousin just was shot and killed. I don't know how these kids and their families get by. I know when shots rang out in my neighborhood I couldn't move for fear bullets would come flying in my house. How do they afford it - the Bison Fund and their mothers working two and three jobs.

I did not go to the 44,000 registered voters houses but I knocked on enough doors in Riverside telling me that parents took their kids of the public schools and went to Applied Technolgies Charter School and they are happy with it. I knocked on doors on the West Side telling me if they could afford to move they would but their housing values are so low they cannot for their kids to get a better education. I contacted each and every voter in the previous two elections either by person, by mail, or by phone call from one side of theWest District to the other.

My neighbors on Connecituct Street ask me my opinion on where to send their kids to school because they are concerned about them. They do not like all the unruliness or the lack of learning that is going on.

Currently I am Principal for a Summer Program funded by Title I programs which is for children attending public schools that are failing. I open my mouth and ask these kids how there schools are.

I have been in the public schools - I was fortunate enough to be a Principal for the Day at School #3. That is a school that is run well by Ms. Pizzaro and that I saw teaching going on. I was most impressed with the ESL program.

I think I have some knowledge of what the needs and realities are in our city's schools.

[pgduffy]

You want specific complaints from kids and parents:

My kid can't read

My daughter is being picked on and no one does anything.

I called my school board member and received no response.

A kid sliced up a desk with a razor and was in the same seat the next day.

I took my son out because he got jumped in the halls.

All the teacher does is give handouts, no one listens to her, and the kids run around everyday.

I talked to the principal and he said there wasn't anything he could do.

A kid tell me Riverside is ok but it is the only school I got into.

One girl tells me she doesn't go to school anymore.

Several parents say they are satisfied because their kids go to City Honors.

Many parents, especially in Riverside Black Rock want a return to neighborhood schools so they know who the kids are. They want their kids close.

My personal perspective - Two years ago my daughter was placed with me. She did not know her site words, did not know how to read or comprehend anything and didn't have the skills any Kindergarten child should have had. My immediate repsonse was to take her out of that public school and place her in a Catholic one. Needless to say because of what I would call educatioinal neglect she had to repeat 1st grade and I had to enroll her in a specialized reading program at Canisius College.

[Night Owl]

I think you have found the key word: educatioinal neglect.

Your posts are begining to show caring for educational values. That is a good start in getting to the root.

I have gotten more than my fair-share of the 'run around' from the Buffalo Schools & the school board. As a lifelong city taxpaying resident, I have had oppotunity to extend my concerns, only to have it set aside after an educational representitive walks away. I have very little faith in the Buffalo School system, and even less with the board members whom campaigned on educational values and are now filling the shoes of the previous just to maintain the status quo that hasn't changed the Buffalo School System in more than 20 years... in fact it had made things worse.

I see this thread becoming much more productive because I had asked some serious questions and heard answers from at least one whom is in the feild.

[morphinebrian]

The scary thing is What happens when the Patti Duffy's of Buffalo move out. What replaces them???

It furthur escalates into the downward spiral that has happened to this city. Her home will be purchased by an absentee landlord who pays no attention to the property as long as the rent money is there on time. It could be rented out to a drug dealer and makes her bad neighborhood worse. Or it could be left abandoned.

This is the problem with having such bad public schools: It drives out the good and leaves the bad. It drives out our civic leaders, making our neighborhoods worse. This should be a concern to all city residents, not just the ones with children. If you don't have quality schools, you don't have quality neighborhoods.

I have noticed Kevin has gone absent from this conversation. What does he beleive is the answer if Charters isn't it. I really want to know, and I have an open mind on the subject.

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by Night Owl
I think you have found the key word: educatioinal neglect.

Your posts are begining to show caring for educational values. That is a good start in getting to the root.

I have gotten more than my fair-share of the 'run around' from the Buffalo Schools & the school board. As a lifelong city taxpaying resident, I have had oppotunity to extend my concerns, only to have it set aside after an educational representitive walks away. I have very little faith in the Buffalo School system, and even less with the board members whom campaigned on educational values and are now filling the shoes of the previous just to maintain the status quo that hasn't changed the Buffalo School System in more than 20 years... in fact it had made things worse.

I see this thread becoming much more productive because I had asked some serious questions and heard answers from at least one whom is in the feild.


Productive? Parent need to learn they play a large roll in thier childrens education. Just don't have schools on the hook. A new thread should be started reguarding the schools role versus the parents role in thier childrens education.... :)

[kristop]

Originally posted by WNYresident
Productive? Parents need to learn they play a large roll in thier childrens education. Just don't have schools on the hook. A new thread should be started reguarding the schools role versus the parents role in thier childrens education.... :)

AMEN

I don't want to cast any stereotypes.....BUT.....

Parents should be equal partners in education....

From my experience with the Buffalo schools....they are not......and most by their own doing......

My children attend public school in the burbs.....

Parents are there every step of the way.....

I understand the socioeconomic aspect of parental involvement as well..... If you are poor, the likelihood is that your parents don't give two sh**s about what goes on at school....

As sad of a reality that this is......the district needs to come up with a plan to foster parental involvement..... Sure there are parents that are involved....but they are the minority.....

I work closely with a PTO that can't even get enough parents to serve on their board.....

If you look at the city schools that have a great parental presence (City Honors, Campus West, DaVinci...) the students come from more affluent families......

Something needs to be done to get all parents involved.....do something radical..... Maybe make it mandatory that a parent does a certain amount of inservice work at the school a year.....10 hours or whatever.......get the parents to care about the schools their children attend.....

I know it sounds crazy........but......something has to happen......

How can we expect parents that were never brought up to care to care about their child's education?

[kristop]

Originally posted by morphinebrian
The scary thing is What happens when the Patti Duffy's of Buffalo move out. What replaces them???

It furthur escalates into the downward spiral that has happened to this city. Her home will be purchased by an absentee landlord who pays no attention to the property as long as the rent money is there on time. It could be rented out to a drug dealer and makes her bad neighborhood worse. Or it could be left abandoned.

This is the problem with having such bad public schools: It drives out the good and leaves the bad. It drives out our civic leaders, making our neighborhoods worse. This should be a concern to all city residents, not just the ones with children. If you don't have quality schools, you don't have quality neighborhoods.

I have noticed Kevin has gone absent from this conversation. What does he beleive is the answer if Charters isn't it. I really want to know, and I have an open mind on the subject.

Charters.......

We need to get the district to think of the charter model as a way to run the district as a whole.....

Traditional methods are failing.....

BUT......

The way charters are the "vogue" way to offer students and parents an alternative but they also need to be monitored.....

The $$$$$$ aspect is hurting the district....... There needs to be smart growth with these.......... Charters are great if your parents give a crap to send you to one.....what about the children that don't have someone watching out for them? They are left behind in the traditional system that is seeing money syphoned away to the charters......

[Night Owl]

that's a good thought.

After breezing through some of the New York State Education Department's overview of school performance reports in math, language arts and science, I started thinking about how to educate parents in looking at each Buffalo school's performance percentage moreover than neighborhoods or personal preferences.

For example:

the 4th grade math performance percentage of students who 'meet the standards' at school 68 was 70% from the 02-03 school year, while the 4th grade math performance percentage of students who 'meet the standards' at school 53 is 52%

School 68, containing a 519 student enrollment, has 61% of highly qualified teachers within their 62 core classrooms. But the 408 student enrollment at school 53 has 54 core classrooms with 81% of highly qualified teachers.

How can a school containing a 20% less difference in "teaching qualifications" with almost 100 more children have a higher performance percentage in 4th grade mathematics than the one with a higher percentage of "highly qualified" teachers and less students?

If anyone running for the next school board can reasonably answer that... then you'll have my vote!

[kristop]

Originally posted by WNYresident
Productive? Parent need to learn they play a large roll in thier childrens education. Just don't have schools on the hook. A new thread should be started reguarding the schools role versus the parents role in thier childrens education.... :)

http://www.speakupwny.com/article_1065.shtml

Article on parental involvement......

[Curmudgeon]

The education problem is a symptom of the root causes of the problems in Buffalo. They are:

MOBILITY and ARROGANCE

MOBILITY is the ability of an individual, business, or institution to pack up and leave the city.

ARROGANCE is what the leadership exibits when they willfully ignore the conditions the contribute to MOBILITY (high taxes, poor education, absurd regulation).

Buffalo has a "perfect storm" of MOBILITY and ARROGANCE.

Now, lets look at the public schools. The entrenched leadership solution is to largely continue ad nauseum, but with a lot more money from other people who don't live in Buffalo (state aid, etc...).

Does anybody really believe this is going to work at all? I sure don't.

One solution is Charter Schools. Let's be really honest here - charter schools are public schools, but without the current bureaucracy. People are essentially getting fired, but through the back door so as to not make it obvious. What would happen if these schools did well and year after year new charters were added and more traditional schools closed? Let's call a spade a spade - charters are a way to let the parents fire the BTF and their ilk through free-market choices, one kid at a time.

The city makes out because they get a shot at retaining a family who might otherwise pack up and move to Tonawanda, or Clarence, or Charlotte... One kid at a time. And usually those are the families a municipality wants to keep - taxpayers, property owners, business owners. People who actually give a rats ass about their lives and their kids lives.

Spare us the "we're trying to help the children by banning charter schools". It's all about market share, retaining power, and keeping the status quo. And if you have any doubts about that, just ask those Catholic school principals who are terrified that the charters might actually succeed.

You're right: there are some kids who have parents who can't seem to put the crack pipe down and get it together. Short of taking the kid away, there ain't much you're going to do. By the age of 10 or 12 they're probably a lost cause anyway. Sad but true and we all know it.

Is the solution to lump all the other kids into what we have today? Anybody have a name for what we have? I'll make up one right now: Socialist Educational Gulag. How's that? That's what it is.

The truth is the luckier kids with decent parents will not be going to those schools anyway. That's the service Catholic schools provide. That's their business model. That's why they exist.

Give the charters a chance and let's be a LITTLE MORE honest about the issue.

[Night Owl]

charter schools are public schools, but without the current bureaucracy.

Charter schools publicly funded, but privately run. The large criticism parents have is their lack of providing special education to children that need it.

People of kids who don't need special services from the public school system will generally say it's bad parenting that is the problem with kids that are learning disabled, without knowing what's it's like to have a special needs child.

Hundreds of kids each year receive special services but I doubt highly that hundreds of parents are totally ignorant.

Corporations play a role somewhere in the charter school process. There are no garentees (sp?) that charter schools will be around or for how long, especially when you have places like Enron getting into trouble. The illimination of Buffalo Public schools will not happen unless you plan on rewriting the New York State constitution where it says the state has to provide educational advantages to children within the state.

We need to comprise a list of what we think are the main concerns in education at Buffalo schools. IE. parental involvement, student disciplined, community surroundings ect. and work on each individually and not to lump them all together and debate which is one more than the other. They all have importance.

That sound like an idea for a new poll.

[Night Owl]

New poll is ready

click HERE (http://www.speakupwny.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=12633#post12633) to go.

[Night Owl]

a closer look at school percentages

click HERE (http://www.speakupwny.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1496) to go to this new thread

[morphinebrian]

What everybody forgets is that they can revoke a charter. So if a charter does a bad job, they don't get anymore public money.

As far as the criticism that Charters would take all the good kids is a BTF fabricated myth. There are schools planned for primarly homeless kid, a school for developmentally disabled people run by People Inc. There are charters in other cities designed for the worst of the worst.

I fail to see how, because some kids don't have a parent who cares, those that do should receive a bad education as well. What is the logic in that?

This is not a way to dismantle the BTF...just a way to keep them honest.

[kristop]

Originally posted by morphinebrian
I fail to see how, because some kids don't have a parent who cares, those that do should receive a bad education as well. What is the logic in that?

This is not a way to dismantle the BTF...just a way to keep them honest.

The logic isn't so much to prevent anyone from receiving a bad education....it is to ensure that everyone receives the best education available across the board....

[Curmudgeon]

What everybody forgets is that they can revoke a charter. So if a charter does a bad job, they don't get anymore public money.
That's right! That's called accountability. Something that doesn't exist now.


This is not a way to dismantle the BTF...just a way to keep them honest.
And if in the process they do get dismantled, who cares? I sure don't.


I fail to see how, because some kids don't have a parent who cares, those that do should receive a bad education as well. What is the logic in that?
Clever? yes. True? no.
Some kids come from horrible home lives and have no interest in education at all, no matter how much money you throw at the problem. You can send them off to Williamsville or Clarence and they will still fail. To send these kids off to school with kids who want to do well is a disservice to the others. After grade 8, let's reward the acheivers with a better learning environment and give the problem kids a more more suitable enviroment where they can learn the skills they need. Some 10th graders can learn calculus while others are still learning how to read. Sad but true.

[kristop]

Originally posted by Curmudgeon
Clever? yes. True? no.
Some kids come from horrible home lives and have no interest in education at all, no matter how much money you throw at the problem. You can send them off to Williamsville or Clarence and they will still fail. To send these kids off to school with kids who want to do well is a disservice to the others. After grade 8, let's reward the acheivers with a better learning environment and give the problem kids a more more suitable enviroment where they can learn the skills they need. Some 10th graders can learn calculus while others are still learning how to read. Sad but true.

Come on.....

So we should write kids off........something like this....sorry Sally you've had a rough life.....too freakin bad.......your life is a disservice to others.....let's send you to Food Prep High so you can prepare yourself for a life of flipping burgers.....

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by kristop
Come on.....

So we should write kids off........something like this....sorry Sally you've had a rough life.....too freakin bad.......your life is a disservice to others.....let's send you to Food Prep High so you can prepare yourself for a life of flipping burgers.....

Not acutally write them off, but to give them guidance to thier realistic capabilities. Not everyone can be a brain surgeon, a CEO etc.

[morphinebrian]

Compared to: Sally, you've had a tough life. Here is a High School you won't do well in, probobly drop in Junior year. But as long as the other teachers and I still get high wages with our summers free, who the hell cares.

We are talking about a system that caters to the students needs, not the teachers wants! That is the system we are in now. If Sally mom and dad can't bother to teach her how to read, that may be a skill she should work on before taking on trigonometry. What better way to deal with that problem but a charter school that focuses on problem readers!!!

[pgduffy]

Originally posted by Night Owl

How can a school containing a 20% less difference in "teaching qualifications" with almost 100 more children have a higher performance percentage in 4th grade mathematics than the one with a higher percentage of "highly qualified" teachers and less students?

If anyone running for the next school board can reasonably answer that... then you'll have my vote! [/B]

The answer could be leadership? The answer could be socio- economic status but school 68 and 53 are probably close. One would have to actually go into to the school and see what the conditions are like.

What was the difference between my predecesor and myself to allow for a more effective learning environment at my school? A change in climate was first. Discipline first for children and parents, one year of allowing teachers to prove themselves, and immediate parental notification. End of one year - 15, students dismissed for disciplinary reasons, 55 children on disciplinary probation, half my faculty replaced, and several physical and verbal threats against my person. All equaled a better learning atmosphere. I will admit it was easier to do this at my school because I can throw disruptive students out whereas Buffalo Public schools must keep them or transfer them from one school to another. Bring back the alternative schools.

[Night Owl]

...and give the problem kids a more more suitable enviroment where they can learn the skills they need.

Try not to combine the 'problem kids' with those that are learning disabled.

The 'problem kids with no structural home life/parental involvement should get a more stronger disciplinary way of learning, while the kids who want to learn but are just a little slower than the average 'acheivers' a more suitable enviroment where they can learn the skills they need.

There are kids who want to learn and those who don't. It's up to the teachers and parents to find out what should be done per child, and seperate in the mind of 'acheiver's parents' that learning disabled kids and bad kids are two entirely different characteristics of students.

[morphinebrian]

Patti-
In your experience, does throwing out a couple of kids keep the rest in line, or is it just a weeding out process. Do you beleive that throwing out a few and taking a firm stance against bad discipline encourages good discipline? Or do you just have to throw out all the bad ones and keep the good ones to get a good learning environment?

[Night Owl]

Or do you just have to throw out all the bad ones and keep the good ones to get a good learning environment?

where do all of the 'bad ones' go once they'd been tossed out of a good school? They are put into the Buffalo schools where instead of strict discipline, they are bounced from one school to another and they only thing they learn is that they will not be held responsible (sp?) for their own actions.

[morphinebrian]

Either way, is it justified to compromise the learning environment of the good (well behaved) for the bad (disruptive)? I don't beleive so...even in Public Schools. They should be dropped. Maybe with some consequences to their actions, they might behave. If not, good riddance.

Does anybody here who is advocating not bringing in the Charters have a son/daughter (or even a distant relative) in Buffalo Public Schools.

[pgduffy]

Originally posted by morphinebrian
Patti-
In your experience, does throwing out a couple of kids keep the rest in line, or is it just a weeding out process. Do you beleive that throwing out a few and taking a firm stance against bad discipline encourages good discipline? Or do you just have to throw out all the bad ones and keep the good ones to get a good learning environment?

A weeding out process is more like it. Generally we work with the child and the parent or guardian on a beahviorl plan, or insist on counseling, or if the child has a learning problem we work on that with the parent. If a particular child has not progressed and is a detriment to the learning process generally that student goes to the public system.

When I first came on board a fight was an automatic dismissal because this school was totally out of control. Kids running around swearing, flipping lights off and on, and even one of the sisters puched. That was what I came into.

As the school has evolved there is more leniency. For instance, I had two boys who continually fought one another. The parents were called in, a plan was made, and I served as the intervention. At first I counseled the gentlemen, then, one day a week these two boys would miss religion class and work on punching the punching bag. Thus one ended up teaching the other one how to punch.

Now on the other hand a gentleman, I call them ladies and gentlemen, we had another disruptive child whose last straw was to say he had a bomb in his locker, he was going to shot everyone, and then blow up the building. Needless to say the police were called and he was dismissed from school.

You do not have to throw out all the disruptive ones. You find a way to work with them, you help your teachers with good techniques, you rely on yur faculty and parents for help. For instance, there are some things I cannot say or do because I am white. On the other hand there are some things my faculty can say and do because they afre African American.

Other children need a different environment, a more one on one setting, or small group setting in a different school.

[morphinebrian]

Patti-
Besides simply allowing Charters, what should be done to help the Buffalo Schools.
What type of Charters should open. What other measures, as a school administrator, would you like to see done to help our schools.

[buffnik]

where do all of the 'bad ones' go once they'd been tossed out of a good school? They are put into the Buffalo schools where instead of strict discipline, they are bounced from one school to another and they only thing they learn is that they will not be held responsible (sp?) for their own actions.


Don't forget the costly private "special education" schools(that school districts pick up the tab for) to the tune of 20k per student per year, like Stanley G Falk School, Gateway- Longview, just to name two biggies with more coming on board all of the time...

[WNYresident]

Define special ed. Does NYS have a higher percentage of special ed compared to other states?

[pgduffy]

Originally posted by morphinebrian
Patti-
Besides simply allowing Charters, what should be done to help the Buffalo Schools.
What type of Charters should open. What other measures, as a school administrator, would you like to see done to help our schools.


First and foremost I would get rid of the tenure system as it now exists so schools can get rid of ineffective administrators, teachers, teacher aides. It is virtually impossible to set into motion a 3020a which are dismissal procedures according to NYS ed law. A compromise may be in order because unions certainly would want to protect their workers. That is one reason why charters look so appealing to me. As far as the argument that someone could get fired because of retribution or because the boss didn't like someone. There are enough lawyers out there who would slap a lawsuit on someone so quick. I work from a year to year contract as do my faculty. If that doesn't put some pressure on you I don't know what does. Your staff also needs to know there are consequences to their actions.

I know the state is mandating that teachers have a certain number of staff development hours in a five year period. That could equate with a positive improvement in staff - say in various discipline techniques and the ways to reach our middle school kids who seemed to be lost.

I'm looking at the kids coming to my program this summer. Boy would I love to have them at the beginning of the year. We would start with manners and morals or what is called character education in the public schools. My teachers and I were talking about this today. They are good kids but they need to know there are such things as an outside voice and an inside voice. They need to say please and thank you. They need to be taught what respect is for themselves and others. This may seem ridiculous to some but civility is important. We even get on their case when they tell someone to shut up. I know Buffalo is looking into a character program to implement but they need to fast track it. It needs to be system wide. It would include bullying, violence prevention.

My firm belief is we need to take a holistic approach to the whole family. The schools should be back in the hands of the community and not based upon whether you have to have an engineer and adminstrator there to jack up the price of programming. I like the concept of community schools where you have various social services for everyone including afterschool programming and the like. Say a 7:00 - 7:00 building which is used by the community during various hours. Grabriarz is a good example where they built this new building and it connected to the Northwest Community Center. Our families need help also because our children model the atmosphere they live in. They act aggressively and nasty as a form of protection. They are taught to beat someone down before they beat you down. Many come from terrible homes or from homes where their mothers do not want them so of course they are angry at the world.

I love the concept of a tech prep school to prepare people to enter the technology field. Our kids are so much more advanced than many adults. One actually could have these kids working in the field in their senior year say with the Schools Construction sites and training with unions. Everyone is not going to Harvard.

I love the concept of a girls only charter which has been suggested. I would add a boys to complement that. Albany has two such schools. Some young men and women need to learn in that type of environment. Our results were tremendous when we separated the girls and boys into separate classes 3 years ago. Before, my kids couldn't get into Catholic schools or better public schools. Now they are doing so.

Some charters want a K-12 model which I am firmly against. I do not younger children (5 yr olds) around 18 yr olds.

One item which totally irritates me is that very few children with special needs are in charters at this time. That should be mandated that any charter must take children of special needs and offer those services otherwise they shouldn't be chartered. These are public schools being funded with public monies. IDEA legislation mandates that children must be in the least restrictive environment.

[WNYresident]

We would start with manners and morals or what is called character education in the public schools. My teachers and I were talking about this today.

Basic respect for the community and community members including classmates?

[morphinebrian]

My concern Charters a quota regarding special needs students into Charters is that it will force only large Charter schools, compared to smaller charter schools. Don't special needs students need specialtized instruction, and forcing a small charter to hire an instructor for 1 or 2 pupils lead to a large financial strain on the Charter.

I like the concept of the People, Inc. Charter School for special needs students. While there are negative effects, such as not including them into more mainstream settings, creating a setting for there distinct needs is a wonderful idea.

I like your idea to create a 7am-7pm building, however paying to keep it open and creating programs to get families and adults involved seems problematic. I beleive the school infrastructure is underutilived by the city, but I doubt funding for such programs is impossible.

I beleive tenure, in one form or another, is with us to stay. I don't see under what circumstances unions would give that up. I firmly beleive a new system to get rid of ineffective teachers is needed.

Do you beleive that the School Board, after initiating a Charter, several years down the line after being ineffective, would revoke the Charter. I don't beleive there are too many cases of this happening nationally, even though there are many ineffective Charter Schools. Do you think there should be a standard at which Charters are revoked (Like pass under 75% Seniors for 3 straight years, the Charter gets revoked)

[Curmudgeon]

Nobody wants the hot-potato disabled kids. Why? Because they cost a lot to teach and service. So here's the solution:

Charters get so much per head per year to teach. So, PRIOR to disbursing funds to the charters and non-charters, evaluate each special-ed kid and give an estimate on how much a school needs to teach him. Set aside funds for that kid. Then, wherever that kid goes, the school gets his money. Sounds fair to me. Lets say a regular kid is worth $5500 a year or whatever. Let's make a Parkinsons kid $14,000 and an autistic epileptic parapalegic kid $52,000. Are these figures correct? Hell, No! I'm not an expert, but somebody is...
How many disabled kids can there be? 500? 1000? let's put a price on each one. In fact, let's be generous and pad the bill a bit, to provide an incentive to the schools to take these kids. Perhaps we'll wind up with a few schools who have a diverse student body but also do a really great job with the disabled. Seems a bit stupid to not pool resources with a problem like this.
We just need to ensure there isn't "disability-creep" where little johnnys' penchant for beating up other kids doesn't get classified as a syndrom or disorder or whatever. You'll soon have an entire city of disabled kids. Better yet, tkae the schools completely out of the loop of determining who is disabled. Create an independent "disability evaluation board". An MD and a couple of nurses should be fine.

[morphinebrian]

There needs to be standards on what "teaching" is for disabled individuals. You can put them in a classroom, pay someone $8.00 an hour and watch them put together puzzles all day. It would be cheap, but they won't learn anything.

I'm not very sure what qualifications are neccessary for Charters (or public schools for that matter) and disabled individuals. What type of staff qualifications are neccessary, etc.

I beleive they need a specialized setting, and a seperate school would be best for them. There are cons, like being seperated from normal society, but there are other ways to rectify that.

[WNYresident]

Do we have more dis-abled/slower learning kids that we did lets say in the 70s? I went to school 43 and do remember a special ed class but it was like 10 students or so. Anyone have a clue what the number if disabled/slower learning is in local schools?

[Night Owl]

Lets say a regular kid is worth $5500 a year or whatever.

The 2001-2002 District wide total expenditure per stundent is $12,201 a year. That is a 'straight across the board' amount for all children including special ed & non special ed students.

WNYresident- Special ed students are primarilly ones with Learning Disabilities (LD). Physically challenged students are one with physical disabilities (PD).

Create an independent "disability evaluation board".

Already done, it's call the committee on special education and is a service of the Buffalo Board of Education. They are the board that tests students for learning disibilities and finds 'suitable' placement within a city school. They work on individual stundent's needs and etc.

Anyone have a clue what the number if disabled/slower learning is in local schools?

I don't have actually numbers to that, but from the report from New York State... the percentages of students (quote) : 'In need of extra help to meeting the standards and pass the Regents exams' is absolutely staggering.

For example: school # 6 (Buffalo elementary school of technology) 57% of the students need extra help to meeting the standards in 8th grade Language Arts. Only 14% are meeting the standards with possibility of passing the Regents exam.

School #33 (bilingual center) 81% of the students need extra help to meeting the standards in 8th grade Language Arts. Only 12% are meeting the standards, with possibility of passing the Regents exam.

According to these figures and many more, there are a lot of kids that can be classified as 'slow learners' than what are now.

[morphinebrian]

Questions arise about academic credentials of School Board's Hernandez
By PETER SIMON
News Staff Reporter
7/30/2004

The academic credentials of a new Buffalo Board of Education member are in dispute, with D'Youville College officials contesting the claim of Ralph Hernandez that he earned a master's degree from the school.
"We do not have a record indicating that the student has obtained a master's degree from our institution," D. John Bray, D'Youville's director of public relations, said in a letter to The Buffalo News.

That letter was in response to a July 17 story about Hernandez, in which the board's West District representative said he earned a master's degree in health services administration earlier this year.

D'Youville officials acknowledged that Hernandez was pursuing a master's degree and was allowed to take part in graduation ceremonies but said he did not complete his degree requirements.

The officials said they feel a responsibility to set the record straight but are prohibited by federal privacy laws from discussing the board member's academic record in greater detail.

Hernandez said Thursday that he already earned his master's degree and will likely pursue the issue with D'Youville officials. "My position is that I have the necessary paperwork to earn my degree," he said.

Hernandez said he learned nine or 10 days before graduation that he had failed to take one required course. He said he was not previously aware of that requirement because "I was never given proper student advisement."

Hernandez said he discussed the matter prior to graduation with John J. Donohue, D'Youville's vice president for academic affairs, and that Donohue agreed to waive the course requirement and allow him to graduate.

Although he did not receive an actual diploma, Hernandez said he simply assumed the necessary paperwork had not been completed.

Hernandez attributed the dispute to an apparent misunderstanding. "If the college would prefer that I don't say I have a master's degree from D'Youville College, I'll be happy to abide by that," he added.

Donohue declined to comment on any discussions he had with Hernandez, citing the restraints of federal law.

On a separate issue, Hernandez, who is seeking a three-year moratorium on the establishment of new district-sponsored charter schools, acknowledged that he explored the possibility last year of helping organize a charter school in Buffalo's Hispanic community.

Hernandez said he met once with Peter Murphy, vice president of the New York Charter Schools Resource Center, to gather information on charter schools, but decided against the idea.

"I didn't get anywhere near the point of saying it was an issue I wanted to pursue," Hernandez said. "My position was largely to educate myself. I asked him a million questions because that's the way I am. My decision was: This is not good for Buffalo."

Murphy said they met at a Niagara Street restaurant last August at Hernandez' request. He said Hernandez at first seemed to be "a fairly enthusiastic charter supporter," and "expressed very keen interest" in pursuing a charter school on Buffalo's West Side.

Murphy said Hernandez did not contact him again after that initial meeting and that it is not unusual for people to explore and then drop the idea of founding a charter school.

"But when I heard he was running for the board and that he was anti-charter, I said: "Wait a minute. Didn't I meet this guy?' " Murphy said. "I never before had an instance where someone expressed that kind of interest and ended up on an anti-charter slate."

Hernandez won the West District seat as a write-in candidate last May and had the endorsement of the Buffalo Teachers Federation, which strongly opposes a plan to establish a broad network of district-sponsored charter schools.

At his first full business meeting on the board, Hernandez earlier this month circulated a five-page proposal seeking a moratorium on new district-sponsored charter schools.

[WNYresident]

D'Youville officials acknowledged that Hernandez was pursuing a master's degree and was allowed to take part in graduation ceremonies but said he did not complete his degree requirements.

Why would a college allow someone to take part in ceremonies but not complete the degree. Don't you finish one before being allowed to do the other?

[WNYresident]

"I didn't get anywhere near the point of saying it was an issue I wanted to pursue," Hernandez said. "My position was largely to educate myself. I asked him a million questions because that's the way I am. My decision was: This is not good for Buffalo."


No good for buffalo or not good for the buffalo school union?

[keyboard150]

I'm not sure that Hernandez is a union pawn. He might be, or he may just be taking a good hard look at the charter school issue.

For the most part, I'm not opposed to them. Although, having taught at one, I can tell you the particular one I was in could be easily beaten by any public school.

There are some doing very well, however. I'm just not sure the board was thinking when they passed that resolution. District - SPonsored charter schools MAY BE a good solution, but it needs to be looked at, a lot.

I'm sure when the board adopted the magnet schools issue, they didn't just rush into it. I don't think the resolution is dead, just being looked at.


I would hope that Hernandez is not a union pawn, because he has potential.


By the way, the teachers union doesn't represent all the teachers. I can tell you this, because I'm in it.

The teachers union supports OLD TEACHERS. They could care less about any of the rest of us.
I can tell you, though, the teachers union is not as unified as they will lead you to believe. There is a lot of dissent and disgust for the way the union treats the city, and the children.
Unfortunately, in an area deeply involved in "Tammany Hall Politics," we have to keep our mouth shut, or risk being shown the door.

[pgduffy]

You are correct some are good charter schools some are not. I really do think it boils down to two items - leadership and the socioeconomic status of the children.

My thinking is the BPS saw the writing on the wall and if they wanted to compete for kids & the $ they had to do their own charters. This way in a purely financial way they could recoup some of the money they would loose as well as having some say over public education in the City of Buffalo.

The issue is not dead yet as ar as the new charters go. I will try to attend an executive committee meeting where the potential charters supported by the Renaissance Plan for next year will be discussed. They were to be given an answer from the BOE by Sept 30th.

I can tell you people are supportive of charters on the West Side to address specific needs of the Latino and immmigrant populations.

As far as the BTF I think they are protecting their own turf. I did not realize there is such debate within the ranks. That is good to see because I really think we need to change public education for the benefit of children and families. We are not an agrarian society anymore and need to realize that schools have to evolve to provide for extensive services beside striaght academic education.