Spanish Debate what a slap in the face.

[Cgoodsp466]

Well last night the Demrats had a presidential debate.It was in spanish! Ist that great reaching out to the wet back! I was under the impression to be a registered voter you had to be a citizen? To become a citizen you had to be able to speak english. The only spanish people need to know is to tell Pedro,"Learno to spek Englisho Pedro.
NAFTA Sucks. PC Sucks. :mad:

[raoul duke]

boy i really cannot wait until "conservatives" like yourself become totally irrelevant. keep the white/anglo pride flag flying, gringo. the rest of us will quietly move on without you.

[Timmy]

We need an english only language amendment

you can come to this country but you must assimilte and learn our language. If thats to much to ask...go back to mexico or latin america or whatever or where-ever your from.

[run4it]

We need an english only language amendment

you can come to this country but you must assimilte and learn our language. If thats to much to ask...go back to mexico or latin america or whatever or where-ever your from.
In order to become a citizen you do have to know english. Otherwise you're on a renewable (and revokable) visa, or just an illegal alien.

[run4it]

...and legal citizens who are still working on or struggling to pick up the language should be disenfranchised....why?

[FisherRd]

...and legal citizens who are still working on or struggling to pick up the language should be disenfranchised....why?


If the candidates didn't speak Spanish (except for 2), and they ended up with translators anyway, what was the difference between that debate and the ones on Fox, MSNBC, or CNN with the Spanish subtitles?

It just seems like such obvious pandering (so do the ones held at religious institutions and the like).

Can you imagine Hillary Clinton speaking spanish in that monotone voice? Egads!

[WNYresident]

...and legal citizens who are still working on or struggling to pick up the language should be disenfranchised....why?

Don't you need to know english to become a legal citizen?

[FisherRd]

Don't you need to know english to become a legal citizen?


Yes, but it's not as if they are reading/speaking/interpreting at a High School level though.

[raoul duke]

Yes, but it's not as if they are reading/speaking/interpreting at a High School level though.

pfft... a lot people born in this country, across all class lines, can't do that.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

pfft... a lot people born in this country, across all class lines, can't do that.


True, this is because they are the product of our wonderful public schools brought to you by a teachers union near you........ :p

[raoul duke]

True, this is because they are the product of our wonderful public schools brought to you by a teachers union near you........ :p

don't forget the tax payers that believe, somehow, being educated on the cheap is possible and practical.

[Linda_D]

Don't you need to know english to become a legal citizen?

People born in Puerto Rico are US citizens by birth, and can come and go to the US as they want. Most born in Puerto Rico speak Spanish as their first language. Many poorer people from Puerto Rico who come to the US have only limited English skills.

Many people who were born in northern New Mexico and southern Colorado (and thus are citizens) and continue to live there are of Mexican/Spanish descent and speak Spanish as their first language, especially the older people.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

don't forget the tax payers that believe, somehow, being educated on the cheap is possible and practical.


I doubt you can say the US is cheap when it comes to spending on education.

Providing a good return for dollar spent is the problem.

[raoul duke]

I doubt you can say the US is cheap when it comes to spending on education.

Providing a good return for dollar spent is the problem.

a society does not grow and learn solely in a classroom. before you blame teachers unions for the problems, remember they are there to teach kids, not raise them.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

a society does not grow and learn solely in a classroom. before you blame teachers unions for the problems, remember they are there to teach kids, not raise them.


I agree 100% on that topic. I understand that in most cases, a teacher is starting in the negative with kids. So what do we do?

Today, anyone is allowed to start a family. Even if they are not responsible enough to do so. Anyone can continue to grow a family, even if they can not support the current.

We hear time and time again that the kids who face the hardest road in school come from the weakest family's. These kids hold up classes and the learning process. This kids compromise the effectiveness of teachers.

So what do we do? Do you really want to talk about fixing the root of the problem. Because if so, that is going to be a very hard conversation for a liberal.

[CSense]

Look I don't care who's at fault just fix the F'n problem. The teachers say its the kids, not enough money, bad environment, blah, blah, blah, etc. The parents say its the school system, bad environment, blah, blah, blah. School administrators say they don't have enough money, bad teachers, blah, blah, blah.

For Pete's sake what's the problem! It looks like a lot of educated people can't figure out anything except spend money.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Look I don't care who's at fault just fix the F'n problem. The teachers say its the kids, not enough money, bad environment, blah, blah, blah, etc. The parents say its the school system, bad environment, blah, blah, blah. School administrators say they don't have enough money, bad teachers, blah, blah, blah.

For Pete's sake what's the problem! It looks like a lot of educated people can't figure out anything except spend money.


You just pointed out the problem. It is the finger pointing!!!!


Everyone involved is part of the problem and must be part of the solution. The challenge is those involved do not want to take any blame whatsoever.

[Cgoodsp466]

don't forget the tax payers that believe, somehow, being educated on the cheap is possible and practical.

My school Taxes are to Friggin High.

[WNYresident]

don't forget the tax payers that believe, somehow, being educated on the cheap is possible and practical.

Remember paying someone more doesn't make them better at what they do in most cases. How does paying a bad employee more make them a better employee the next higher paycheck?

[Cgoodsp466]

Remember paying someone more doesn't make them better at what they do in most cases. How does paying a bad employee more make them a better employee the next higher paycheck?

Res you just described all Unions and public sector employees.

[colossus27]

don't forget the tax payers that believe, somehow, being educated on the cheap is possible and practical.

You can't blame them- It's not working when it's expensive and wasteful.

[colossus27]

Everyone involved is part of the problem and must be part of the solution. The challenge is those involved do not want to take any blame whatsoever. Everybody? How so?

What role did we play in setting the state's requirements for a HS diploma? What role did we play in setting the requirements for a teaching certificate? What say do you have in who selects the Board of Regents?

The people in charge of the program, as a whole, are to blame.

The 90's and this decade did not have a monopoly on inattentive, alcoholic, or drug-abusing parents. Single mothers alone don't account for such low performance, nationwide.

Society has a lot to do with the difficulties in educating kids, to be certain, but the requirements for teaching have not kept up with advancements in many fields, science in particular. We already know the typical level of English has slipped...math is even worse.

I look around and I see people with a laughable 2-year 'doctorate' of education pontificating about what kids need- this 'doctor' has an educational background in music. Gotta think he's got his finger on the pulse of the science syllabus, hmm? He doesn't, and what's worse, he's spending all of his/her time figuring out how the school will administer a program so red-tape laden it makes the tax code look like tic-tac-toe. And while I'm at it, you so don't want to know what these people are paid.

There's not a single scientist or mathematician on the NY State Board of Regents.

Five and a half hours of instruction per day, 186 days a year. So much for instilling a 'full-time' work ethic.

Speaking of work- this costs taxpayers, per hour, more than the median hourly income in Erie Co.

Everybody loses.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Everybody? How so?

What role did we play in setting the state's requirements for a HS diploma? What role did we play in setting the requirements for a teaching certificate? What say do you have in who selects the Board of Regents?

The people in charge of the program, as a whole, are to blame.

The 90's and this decade did not have a monopoly on inattentive, alcoholic, or drug-abusing parents. Single mothers alone don't account for such low performance, nationwide.

Society has a lot to do with the difficulties in educating kids, to be certain, but the requirements for teaching have not kept up with advancements in many fields, science in particular. We already know the typical level of English has slipped...math is even worse.

I look around and I see people with a laughable 2-year 'doctorate' of education pontificating about what kids need- this 'doctor' has an educational background in music. Gotta think he's got his finger on the pulse of the science syllabus, hmm? He doesn't, and what's worse, he's spending all of his/her time figuring out how the school will administer a program so red-tape laden it makes the tax code look like tic-tac-toe. And while I'm at it, you so don't want to know what these people are paid.

There's not a single scientist or mathematician on the NY State Board of Regents.

Five and a half hours of instruction per day, 186 days a year. So much for instilling a 'full-time' work ethic.

Speaking of work- this costs taxpayers, per hour, more than the median hourly income in Erie Co.

Everybody loses.


Let me guess. You are a teacher. Quite predictable.....


I agree 100% with the challenges you outlined in regards to administration and parents. Additional to this, things like the board of regents and local boards of education.

But....

If you do not see that the machine known as the teachers union is not one of the main players in the decline of our education system, you are blind and a fool.

[Timmy]

If you have a union and a school board and a board of education that through taxpayer money and buracracy at every problem then teachers will gladly take the money....but ask any teacher if they are getting the discipline, focus, the safety, the attention, the structure, etc to do their job and they will say know.

All the scandinavian countries now have school vouchers and school choice. A parent may send their child to any school they choose and its been that way for decades. They get some of the best academic results and the costs are reasonable. Gotta love how pragmatic and reasonable scandinavians are...and darn attractive TOO!

Now according to the ECONOMIST Britain is considering joining the school voucher and school choice ... by emulating the scandinavian system...to fix what is one of the worst public educational systems in the developed world.

New Jersey is the latest state to sue and win the right for parents to send their children to the school of their choice....NYS has it but its very restricted.

The future is very clear and the teachers unions may slow it but will not be able to stop it. Teachers unions are going the way of the teamsters (truck drivers union that could once shut down the country), going the way of the auto union, the textile union and the steel unions.

The US is going to get school choice and school vouchers. Unions will still be in schools but without total control of the public school system they will no longer be able to rig elections and fix political agendas and hold the taxpayer hostage in their arbitration.

The sooner it happens the sooner our kids will stop being warehoused and start learning for the 21st century.

[Timmy]

and yes, all political debates should be in english

english should be made the official language of government

thats not to say that you cannot speak other languages. I applaud those who are multi-lingual.....but a unified government and a unified country requires a single language.

otherwise your going to get the belgian and canadian problem.

Belgium is divided by french speaking and dutch speaking....their country is forever torn in two and constantly debating dissolution

Canada is divided by french and english speaking....their country is forever torn by succession of the canadian province as well

Will american be divided between the spanish speaking and the english speaking.....forced on us by illegal immigrants...who refuse to wave the american flag or speak the english language or accept the free market capitalistic practices or import their central and south american marxist/socialist programs

[FisherRd]

Good old Timmy...Why use 15 words when 500 will do, right?

[run4it]

All the scandinavian countries now have school vouchers and school choice. A parent may send their child to any school they choose and its been that way for decades. They get some of the best academic results and the costs are reasonable. Gotta love how pragmatic and reasonable scandinavians are...and darn attractive TOO!
I hate to turn this into another voucher thread, but if you're going to be incorrect, I'm going to have to correct you.

Let's just take a look at Finland. I believe it's in Scandanavia, correct?

Yes, they do fund private schools. For the past "decades" (and sorry, this is the most recent information I could find), as of 1999, 9 private schools had applied for public funding, and 4 had been approved. Private schools are only allowed as they are "required by educational need and to fulfil other conditions prescribed by legislation." That means, no private schools unless the public schools are for some reason unable to provide the education (probably why there were only 4 schools in the country).

Private schools that receive public funds only get 90% of the funding that public schools get

Private school teachers are still part of the same public school teachers union, and the private school must bargain with that union.

The curriculum is the same as public schools. Teaching methods in Finland are largely prescribed at the local level, so both public and private schools have a wide margin for their methodology.

Finland (and the other Scandanavian countries) can recognize private (read: religious) schools because they have STATE SPONSORED RELIGIONS! I don't think we want to go down that road.


But while we're making comparisons, Timmay, why is it that European education systems are so great, but we shouldn't go anywhere near a European style health care system? You're pointing towards Europe as a progressing standard (incorrect as it may be).

[colossus27]

Let me guess. You are a teacher. Quite predictable.....


I agree 100% with the challenges you outlined in regards to administration and parents. Additional to this, things like the board of regents and local boards of education.

But....

If you do not see that the machine known as the teachers union is not one of the main players in the decline of our education system, you are blind and a fool.
That's a pretty amusing assumption, considering I've nothing but bile for school unions- you haven't seen my other posts :)

I'm not a teacher, I'm an engineer, and I've a 14-year old son attending a public school. I specifically avoided school taxes, lest this turn into another 6-page thread where Linda makes unfounded claims, and then either dissapears or ignores your obvious questions.

The entire system- from the state regents down to the tax assessments- is an abject failure.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

But while we're making comparisons, Timmay, why is it that European education systems are so great, but we shouldn't go anywhere near a European style health care system? You're pointing towards Europe as a progressing standard (incorrect as it may be).


Started a thread on just this topic. It is here (http://forums.speakupwny.com/showthread.php?p=236510#post236510)

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

That's a pretty amusing assumption, considering I've nothing but bile for school unions- you haven't seen my other posts :)

I'm not a teacher, I'm an engineer, and I've a 14-year old son attending a public school. I specifically avoided school taxes, lest this turn into another 6-page thread where Linda makes unfounded claims, and then either disappears or ignores your obvious questions.

The entire system- from the state regents down to the tax assessments- is an abject failure.


Sorry. Your posts are new to me.

The reason I assumed you were a teacher is you did not lay any blame on them. I stated it is a mess because of all involved. You said "The people in charge of the program, as a whole, are to blame." which led me to believe you were pointing the finger. Sorry.