I must of been dreaming..

[WNYresident]

This morning I think I heard on TV a commerical about a stadium. They want to build something called Manhatten Stadium for millions of dollars of state aid.

Anyone know what this is and WHY would state money would have to be used to build a stadium at this time.

[yokes]

yep its part of the expanded Javits center project in NYC. Also going to be the new home if the JETS. Its part of a major rennovation to the lower west side of Manhattan, as well as a part of the cities bid to get the olympics.

[WNYresident]

So why is state money going to a sport related business?

[therising]

I was checking out this website recently. It's pretty neat if you enjoy reading about different stadiums and ballparks:

http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/

It gives details and descriptions of every major league stadium and arena. And it tells how much they cost, and how much came from public financing. Virtually every stadium has at least half of it's funding coming from the public (increased sales taxes, hotel taxes etc.)

I'm not crazy about it either, but it's the norm, not the exception.

[dtwarren]

Originally posted by WNYresident
So why is state money going to a sport related business?

Beacuse the State helped renovate Ralph Wilson (Rich) Stadium to keep the Bills here. I always said that would bite us in the rear.

It must be nice to have a business where the taxpayers pay your plant, property and equipment.

[WNYresident]

I was wondering why we seem to subsidize tourism. It doesn't help my business and how does it help retired people? Perhaps NYS should start subsidizes all business with lower taxes versus subsidizing a chosen few.

[absolivious]

Originally posted by WNYresident
I was wondering why we seem to subsidize tourism. It doesn't help my business and how does it help retired people? Perhaps NYS should start subsidizes all business with lower taxes versus subsidizing a chosen few.
Plain and simple - tourism means money coming in from outside the area - be it for a football game, art show, kids hockey tournament, architectural tour, Empire State Games, or chicken wing festival.

Without those "tourism" dollars businesses around here would see nothing more than recirculated local dollars. Tourism means more dollars available for all consumer businesses (even a computer shop). Admittedly, WNY, the effect is likely to be secondary for your computer shop. But I'm sure some of your current customers include other retailers and with an improvement in their business ...well ... you get the idea. It benefits us all.

Having money brought in from the outside is always better than just recirculating only the dollars that are already here.

It's the very reason that a casino right next to our international airport would have far greater economic benefit to the entire area than one downtown. But that's another thread.

[Admin]

Plain and simple - tourism means money coming in from outside the area - be it for a football game, art show, kids hockey tournament, architectural tour, Empire State Games, or chicken wing festival.

Plain and simple it doesn't help the retired person either who doesn't rely on the tourist coming into the state. There's a lot of businesses it doesn't directly help. But back to this stadium thing.

The TV commerical stated they are going to spend Millions of state money for a new stadium. It's wrong. THink of the graft down the line with those millions of dollars. Lots of it.

[WNYresident]

Without those "tourism" dollars businesses around here would see nothing more than recirculated local dollars

Oh you get the point now. RECIRCULATED dollars. See this is why we need to lower taxes across the board so we can get some form of manufacturing going in the area, IE more of it.

We ship a products out of the area and collect funds into the area.

As a casino goes any small tourism it might bring is offset seeing thier money is taken by the indians with a small portion left for the area.

If we were going to do a casino is should be owned somehow by a non profit, non corrupt group. Once a year the money is directly discounted off of the property tax bill so the people that live here acutally see something out of it.

[absolivious]

Originally posted by WNYresident
...Manhatten Stadium....WHY would state money ... have to be used to build a stadium at this time.
For starters:
The fact that every single dollar that fans, broadcast crews, vendors, parking people, traffic cops and football players earns or transact at every Jets and Giants home game will now take place (and be taxable) in NY state -- and NOT in New Jersey.

[WNYresident]

Thats fine but leave tax payers money out of it. Let them spend thier own money and let them profit from it.

I read the article you PM'd me. $600,000,000 from the city and state.

Maybe if we started thinking like I do and a LOT of other people we'd be in better shape tax wise. If all this corporate welfare helps so much why do we have ever increasing taxes?

[absolivious]

Originally posted by WNYresident
Thats fine but leave tax payers money out of it. Let them spend thier own money and let them profit from it.

I read the article you PM'd me. $600,000,000 from the city and state.

Maybe if we started thinking like I do and a LOT of other people we'd be in better shape tax wise. If all this corporate welfare helps so much why do we have ever increasing taxes?

I'd be very much inclined to agree with you, provided you and I can get the ball rolling and persuade all major league market areas (including those that don't have an NFL team) to not to be so competetive and attractive.

[buffnik]

Plain and simple - tourism means money coming in from outside the area - be it for a football game, art show, kids hockey tournament, architectural tour, Empire State Games, or chicken wing festival.

WNY needs tax dollars to put into an infrastructure that supports it's economy period. When that little problem gets solved there might be a reason for a tourist to come to Buffalo.

As it stands now, for the most part,it is local residents who come to football games, art festivals and chicken wing galas not vast numbers of out-of-towners pouring in for this stuff.

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by absolivious
I'd be very much inclined to agree with you, provided you and I can get the ball rolling and persuade all major league market areas (including those that don't have an NFL team) to not to be so competetive and attractive.

Sometimes you need to know when to walk away because the cost isn't worth the return.

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by buffnik
Plain and simple - tourism means money coming in from outside the area - be it for a football game, art show, kids hockey tournament, architectural tour, Empire State Games, or chicken wing festival.

WNY needs tax dollars to put into an infrastructure that supports it's economy period. When that little problem gets solved there might be a reason for a tourist to come to Buffalo.

As it stands now, for the most part,it is local residents who come to football games, art festivals and chicken wing galas not vast numbers of out-of-towners pouring in for this stuff.


He makes a valid point. We are not a all season vacation spot. We do have things that interest people but it's not the same as an acutal tourist destination.

[morphinebrian]

The reason we put so much public money in stadiums has nothing to do with tourism. Its because nobody in this area wants to part with their beloved bills, sabres, etc. It is just to merely buy the vote of the sports fans with taxpayers money. we paid how many millions so ralph wilson stadium can get used 15X a year at most.

Now Pataki and all the State reps down State want to put a new stadium in Manhattan, and why? Its not like a football stadium has a lot of spin off businesses (look around ralph wilson stadium).

[WNYresident]

My point exactly. Just look around what we got now.

We shouldn't subsidize sports... I dont believe the out of towners that come to see a bills game offsets the money we the tax payer puts into the stadium.

Only ones making out are the corporations which feed off our tax money.

Perhaps if we stoped SUBSIDIZING choice businesses and learned to be more efficient in government we could lower taxes.

[dtwarren]

My favorite bumper sticker from the early '80s "Go Bills, and take the Sabres with you!"