The Bridges

[Nicolas II]

Well, now we find out that the GI Bridges are classified at the same level as the Minneapolis bridge which collapsed (of course, anyone with half a brain would wonder about the condition of the GI Bridges if anyone ever bothered to look at them..a coat of hideous blue paint doesn't make them secure)...but, weren't the tolls supposed to be earmarked for bridge maintenance? And does this now mean that the tolls will stay in place since someone has to pay for the bridge rehab?

[Ragin]

I believe I read that work was scheduled for the S Bridge next year.

[Achbek1]

What about the Bridges?

http://img.viacomlocalnetworks.com/images_sizedimage_279055301/xl

[Ragin]

http://media.buffalonews.com/smedia/2007/08/04/07/541-bn-20070804-A001-sixwnybridgesra-2406-MI0001.embedded.prod_affiliate.50.jpg
On a scale of 1 to 9, the four Grand Island bridges each ranked slightly below a 4, meaning the bridges have suffered from material loss, deterioration, concrete damage or underwater foundation problems.

Though not considered near danger of collapse or being closed, the heavily traveled bridges will require tens of millions of dollars in repair work. Serious bridge reconstruction would affect the 71,000 vehicles that cross the South Grand Island bridges daily, as well as 57,000 vehicles on the north bridges.

http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/133856.html

[Nicolas II]

Hey Rus Thompson, still want those toll barriers down? Who's gonna pay for the rehab?

[RusThompson]

Had the toll dollars stayed here and actually paid for these bridges we would be driving on gold plated steel. Instead most went to pay for collection of the tolls and the rest went to the black hole in Albany.

Maybe if we were to actually see the hundreds of millions of federal funds that go to the general fund in Albany we could get rid of the tolls like we were supposed to in 1996. It was Albany legislators that like that money for their own projects instead of the roads and bridges.

[Micheal Joseph]

Had the toll dollars stayed here and actually paid for these bridges we would be driving on gold plated steel. Instead most went to pay for collection of the tolls and the rest went to the black hole in Albany.

Maybe if we were to actually see the hundreds of millions of federal funds that go to the general fund in Albany we could get rid of the tolls like we were supposed to in 1996. It was Albany legislators that like that money for their own projects instead of the roads and bridges.

You are wrong.

The Thruway authority does not give money to the state. They are solely supported by the tolls, and, if any - small amount of federal money. Albany does not give them any.

Micheal

[RusThompson]

You are wrong.

The Thruway authority does not give money to the state. They are solely supported by the tolls, and, if any - small amount of federal money. Albany does not give them any.

Micheal

Where in my statement do you see that I said the thruway authority gives money to the state? I will repeat myself.

Maybe if we were to actually see the hundreds of millions of federal funds that go to the general fund in Albany we could get rid of the tolls like we were supposed to in 1996. It was Albany legislators that like that money for their own projects instead of the roads and bridges.

To reiterate.... We get reimbursed for every highway lane mile from the federal government via the 19 cent gas tax, that money goes into the coffers of the Albany politicians and the general fund. That is why we have tolls. We are being taxed double.

[Ragin]

GRAND ISLAND BRIDGES: Structures are in need of repairs
Published: August 07, 2007 12:10 pm


When it comes to the Grand Island bridges, there is more work to be done.

According to the state Thruway Authority, repairs are scheduled on both the North Grand Island and South Grand Island bridges over the next five years. The work will include substructure repairs and deck replacements on all four bridges.

The work is being done in an effort to bring the bridges back into good condition. Grand Island’s aging bridges did not garner good ratings during their last inspections.

According to the Thruway Authority, the South Grand Island bridge northbound received a condition rating of 3.84 out of seven during its last inspection in November 2006. The southbound bridge received a 3.91 rating during the same inspection.

The North Grand Island bridges didn’t score much better. Its northbound bridge got a 3.98 condition rating in a November 2005 inspection; the southbound bridge got a 3.78 rating.

Bridge condition ratings range from one to seven. Both bridges ranked just below the “poor” classification.

Bridge conditions have been on the minds of the public in the wake of Wednesday’s collapse of Minneapolis’s Interstate 35W bridge. The U.S. Secretary of Transportation Mary E. Peters has now asked states to inspect similar steel deck truss bridges.

“Even though we don’t know what caused this collapse, we want states to immediately and thoroughly examine all similar spans out of an abundance of caution,” Peters said in a press release.

Gov. Eliot Spitzer said similar bridges must be inspected within 30 days. According to the Federal Highway Administration, there are 756 steel deck truss bridges, like the Minneapolis and Grand Island bridges, in the United States.

Thruway Authority spokeswoman Betsy L. Graham said the North Grand Island bridges have been under inspection since June. Once that inspection is complete, the South Grand Island bridges will be under scrutiny.

“The (Thruway Authority) follows a very stringent and thorough bridge inspection program, as mandated by federal and state guidelines, and will continue to do so,” Graham said. “At least every two years, every bridge in the state is inspected as part of the bridge inspection program. Additionally, interim inspections take place every year on the Grand Island bridges.”

Graham said work has been completed and scheduled on both sets of bridges to get them in better condition as part of a $62 million project under the authority’s capital plan. So far, $10 million has been spent on general construction and steel repairs on the South Grand Island bridges and $1.4 million has been spent to place sidewalks on the North Grand Island Bridge northbound.

The authority is currently working on a $1.5 million sidewalk rehabilitation project on the South Grant Island Bridge southbound. The work is expected to be done by the end of the year.

More projects are planned for both bridges for at least the next five years. Later this year, a $30 million nighttime deck replacement will begin on the South Grand Island Bridge northbound in conjunction with substructure work for the entire bridge. The project is expected to be completed in late 2009. A deck replacement project is “being slated as priority” in 2012, Graham said, and substructure repairs would likely be done at that time.

When it comes to the future of the bridges, Graham said expansion has been recommended. In a 2004 report by Bergmann Associates, the South Grand Island bridges currently need a third lane in both directions to handle traffic through 2020. Another lane in both directions would need to be added onto that after that year. The report also said a third lane would be needed on the North Grand Island bridges by 2010 to accommodate traffic through 2030.

Graham said the authority estimated it would cost about $500 million to replace all of the Grand Island bridges completely.

http://www.niagara-gazette.com/local/local_story_219121031.html

[Nicolas II]

I can see the traffic jams already................

[RusThompson]

Eliminate the tolls and traffic will continue through with out coming to a stand still. Stop the thruway authority from sending millions down state to maintain their roads. Eliminating the tolls will stop the further deterioration of the bridges.

This is further proof that our toll dollars do not maintain the bridges, if they did our ratings would not be teetering on condemnation.

[Nicolas II]

Rus......I meant the impending construction will cause traffic congestion, not the flippin' tolls....Considering that you are a contractor engaged in some form of construction, I think I would have preferred you to address the issue of the condition of the bridges rather than trying to save me a stinkin' 75 cents. Sort of a no brainer as to which is the more serious issue, eh? Where is the outrage over the condition of the bridges? Instead of bumper stickers about "No more tolls", how about bumper stickers "Fix our Bridges"??????????

[RusThompson]

I have been and every article I have commented on are right here.
http://albanysinsanity.wnymedia.net/?cat=26

Have you seen the pictures of the south bridges I took this past weekend?
http://nogitolls.com/PicturesoftheSouthGrandIslandBridges.html

Last year they actually talked about shutting down the south bridge north bound for three years to do the re-decking. Pressure from people like me stopped that lunacy. Now they will do it at night one section at a time to allow the traffic to flow during the day.

I have plenty of information as to why the bridges are in the condition that they are in. One of the biggest issues is the tolls. They stop the free flow of traffic causing slow starts up the bridge especially from trucks. This all puts undo stress on the bridges.

71,000 vehicles travel that bridge every day, it was not built for that amount of abuse. Get rid of the tolls and help prolong the life of the bridge.

They are also telling us that the sidewalk work is costing us 1.5 million. All they are doing is grinding off the top coat and adding a skim coat. For 1.5 million? Please, that could be done at a third of the cost easily if not less.

The bridges are in bad shape because the thruway authority does not do the job they are supposed to do. All they want is the jobs. We pay over 300 million to run the authority and 44 million just to collect tolls. An absolute disgrace.

[Nicolas II]

Rus.....I drive under those bridges every day. I don't need to see the photos, particularly after the collapse of the bridge in Minnesota...Why weren't you publishing those pics prior to the collapse...why wasn't the condition of the bridges an issue in your last campaign? The bridges were just as bad. then....The bridges are what they are. What bugs me is that no one bothered to address the condition even though the condition has been visible for years (to anyone who cared to look).......And I am not at all impressed with your argument that the stopping for tolls causes the deterioration....the bridges without toll barriers (there are two on each end) are in just as bad condition........ Frankly, had you taken the approach at the beginning of your campaign that you, as a professional contractor, were indignant that the government was subjecting your family and neighbors to the hazards of unsafe bridges, I think you might have had a winner.......Now you look like you are just another one jumping on the bandwagon

[RusThompson]

You have paid little or no attention to the issues I have been discussing since 1995. All of this has been an issue for me for years. If you did a little research before flying off the handle just to criticize me then you would know.

If you read any of the articles published in the Grand Island papers over the years you would also know that I have been doing this for years. Ask Ragin what was a major part of my campaign in 2001

I said then that with the casino's in the falls inevitable, traffic issues and the structural integrity of the bridges are a real concern and a growing issue. Let me dig up some of the letters to the editor I wrote years ago for you and I will post them.

[marli]

Well, I was not thrilled to hear about the "4" rating. At least once a week I travel over these bridges at least 8 times in one day!!!! I travel over the north bound bridges; pick up my parents in NF; go back over the south bound bridges to an appointment at Roswell; then head back to NF via the north bound bridges to take them home and finally end up going south bound again to get home myself! This does not include other trips during the week for dinner and family events. (and having to pay a toll stinks too...even with EZ Pass; but that's another post!) :mad:

[Ragin]

Experts Say Grand Island Bridges Are Safe

Posted by: Scott Brown, Reporter

Created: 8/9/2007 4:44:25 PM
Updated: 8/9/2007 7:38:43 PM

Both an independent bridge safety expert, and the state Thruway Authority say the Grand Island bridges are safe.

That news comes in the wake of the collapse of the bridge in Minnesota, which has the same design of the Grand Island bridges.

New York inspects its bridges every other year. The south Grand Island bridges were inspected last year, and an inspection of the north bridges began in June.

Scott Brown: "You make a very definitive statement saying the bridges are safe, how can you back that up?"

Tom Pericak of the Thruway Authority: "Well it goes back to our bridge inspection program to look at deficiencies, address deficiencies as necessary through maintenance or capital work and we do that. I want to make sure that the public's aware of that, we take this very seriously."

We also spoke with Jerry O'Connor. He spent 12 years heading bridge inspections for the state D.O.T. in the Southern Tier.

He's now a professor at U.B.

Brown: "The Grand Island bridges are built in a similar fashion to the one in Minneapolis, should that be a concern for people here?"

O'Connor: "No. Just because it's the same design style, doesn't mean the condition is the same. The condition is affected by a lot of things- the truck traffic on the bridge, the weather conditions, repairs and maintenance that were done over the years. So the result can be radically different even though the two structures look alike."

Bridges are rated on a scale of one through seven, with seven being the best. The Grand Island bridges are rated at just under a four.

Brown: "Should people be concerned about the ratings that the bridges have?"

O'Connor: "It's a score that tells the state which parts of the bridge need attention and where to allocate their resources, so I would say even though the condition rating may not be as high as others, it doesn't mean a bridge is unsafe by any means."

Brown: "If a family member of yours is saying, hey I'm going over the Grand Island bridges today, what would you say to them?"

Periicak: "Go ahead, I travel them weekly."

To see Scott Brown's report, click on the link http://www.wgrz.com/video/vplayer.aspx?aid=30887&bw=

[RusThompson]

I hope to have the detailed inspection from last year in my hands very soon.
I have told people not to worry, the bridges are not going to collapse anytime soon. I continue to drive them a couple times a day.

[mrburns]

Why would you be asking , almost blaming Russ for not fighting about the condition of the bridge,

haven't you had elected officials and public officers already in place who have failed here, maybe we should start thanking russ for fighting the good fight and start quetioning those who have been elected as to why they have both allowed the money to be collected and also not made sure it has gone to maintaining the bridges.

they can't have it both ways Russ makes all the sense in the world cut the tolls and put the pressure where it should be albany to fix the problem

keep it up Russ and I hope you get elected to the leg this fall!

[RusThompson]

keep it up Russ and I hope you get elected to the leg this fall!

Thank you Mr Burns.

[Sock Puppet]

The bridge in Minnesota was truss-less and had a HUGE gap between supports. The engineering on the GI bridges, imo, is much better. I don’t sweat any of the bridges collapsing and I don’t mind government money being spent to improve the condition of WNY bridges.

I’m sure the GI tolls are a cash cow for the Thruway Authority, and there are a bunch of fat cats that are really making out on this deal. If I had some sort of control over the situation, I would work on efficient use of the toll money rather than the elimination of the tolls. Why? Good question.

Despite being a 5 minute drive to either Niagara Falls or Buffalo, GI has maintained an almost rural setting, while the other suburbs have had their populations increase at a greater rate than GI. There are multiple factors for this, and one of the biggest is the existence of the tolls. I can’t imagine the GI tolls are any friend to the businesses that rely on mainlanders.

The tolls keep the commercial sector, the population, and the housing prices in check. They play no small role in the evolution of making GI the wonderful community it is today. Keep the tolls!

[RusThompson]

The bridge in Minnesota was truss-less and had a HUGE gap between supports. The engineering on the GI bridges, imo, is much better. I don’t sweat any of the bridges collapsing and I don’t mind government money being spent to improve the condition of WNY bridges.

And where did you get your information from? Just curious. Huge gaps between supports? Actually there have been extensive investigations into bridge bearings, pigeon poop, missing bolts and rusted and corroded steel. I have been in conversation with two engineers that have been studying that bridge collapse.

It is the governments job to take care of the bridges, my problem is they don't and tell us they do. Look closely at the pictures and tell me that the thruway authority has maintained these bridges. http://nogitolls.com/SouthBridgePics2.html
http://nogitolls.com/PicturesoftheSouthGrandIslandBridges.html


I’m sure the GI tolls are a cash cow for the Thruway Authority, and there are a bunch of fat cats that are really making out on this deal. If I had some sort of control over the situation, I would work on efficient use of the toll money rather than the elimination of the tolls. Why? Good question.

A cash cow? Now that is being kind. Look who benefits from the cash cow of the thruway authority and the tolls on the bridges.
http://nogitolls.com/Foil.html
http://nogitolls.com/Foil2.html


Efficient use of the toll money would be the major objective but that does not happen and will not happen unless we eliminate the thruway authority all together. We have tolls only because the federal dollars goes into the general fund in Albany and is not used for roads. that 19 cents a gallon road use tax? It gets spent just like the 3 billion plus dollars that was designated for bridge repair, spent by our Albany legislators on pork projects and operating expenses for departments like the DMV.


Despite being a 5 minute drive to either Niagara Falls or Buffalo, GI has maintained an almost rural setting, while the other suburbs have had their populations increase at a greater rate than GI. There are multiple factors for this, and one of the biggest is the existence of the tolls. I can’t imagine the GI tolls are any friend to the businesses that rely on mainlanders.

And it will stay that way. Have you ever read the zoning codes here on the island. They have written the codes to stop any and all of your concerns. If you haven't, go to town hall and pick up a copy.

The tolls have kept businesses from surviving and only the strong survive. So much for the small businesses and the mom and pop enterprises.


The tolls keep the commercial sector, the population, and the housing prices in check. They play no small role in the evolution of making GI the wonderful community it is today. Keep the tolls!

And Grand Island will remain a great community. It is not the responsibility of the toll and taxpayers of WNY to keep Grand Island a gated community.

You seem to miss the whole point of eliminating the tolls. I will have much more in an upcoming Press Conference next week. If you have a weak stomach then don't look at the pictures. So much for the thruway authority and our elected representatives taking public safety seriously. They would rather buy your votes with that money and give out patronage jobs.

[Scholzee]

Why do the bridges need to be so high ? Is there any boats beside maybe some personal sail boats that need that height ? Lets build a lower acceptable height replacement in between or next to the exsisting while currently using the exsisting bridges as not to distrube the current traffic and then demolisgh the originals.

[RusThompson]

There is no reason any longer for the bridges to be that high. The largest boat now is the one that comes out of the Holiday Inn. Any barges are much lower and actually turn around up river.

The plan needs to be a bridge in between the two south bridges level ground to level ground, that will leave plenty of room for current use.

Hoyt wanted to put in a Causeway, that would be destroyed the first time ice came down from the ice boom. It would also cut off all boating activity.

There should be enough money in that special Grand Island Bridge account the Thruway Authority has set aside from the 72 years of collecting tolls.

[Sylvan]

Nothing will ever get done! Those bridges will be there in the year 2100.

[RusThompson]

They won't be standing that long.

[concernedwnyer]

Why do the bridges need to be so high ? Is there any boats beside maybe some personal sail boats that need that height ? Lets build a lower acceptable height replacement in between or next to the exsisting while currently using the exsisting bridges as not to distrube the current traffic and then demolisgh the originals.

Those bridges do not need to be rebuilt. Russ is producing more smoke then those old factories in the industrial age. A trowel, some quickset, some paint, a couple of twists with a wrench and the bridges will be good as new;)

But remember, Bass Pro spokesperson says "it takes tiiiiimmmmmeee."

[Scholzee]

Those bridges do not need to be rebuilt. Russ is producing more smoke then those old factories in the industrial age. A trowel, some quickset, some paint, a couple of twists with a wrench and the bridges will be good as new;)

But remember, Bass Pro spokesperson says "it takes tiiiiimmmmmeee."



They need to be replaced because they are outdated, the maintance work is not holding up and becoming a major headache to users. That last redecking about 15 years ago was falling apart and being patched within the first 2 years. Did the State ever go after the contractor for inferior work, regardless we had to deal with the patching. How can the original deck last 30 or so years and the new one not ?

[Ragin]

Thruway Continues Bridge Inspection, Lanes Closed - Sept. 2007

Supervisor Peter A. McMahon has been informed by the New York State Thruway Authority that inspections of the South Grand Island Bridge will continue this weekend. One lane will be closed from 6 a.m. until noon on Saturday, September 15th and Sunday, September 16th at which time bridge traffic will be reduced to one lane. "The bridges are safe and in serviceable condition," acting Buffalo Division Director, NYS Thruway Authority Tom Pericak said this week. Inspections are in response to Governor Eliot Spitzer's order to inspect all 49 state bridges that share the same design as the Minneapolis bridge which collapsed in August.