The Rainbow Center

[Linda_D]

Developer David Cordish wants to donate the Rainbow Center to NCCC for its Culinary Institute and Tourism program. (Rainbow Center (http://www.buffalonews.com/city/communities/niagara-county/article221840.ece)). At first glance, that sounds great. However, there are some implications that need to be considered:

the property would come off the tax rolls
NCCC would become responsible for the maintenance, which runs Cordish about $400,000 annually
NCCC only needs about 1/3 of the space in the building. What happens to the rest of it?
How will this impact NCCC students who will need to take regular college courses as well as courses located at the Culinary Institute?
Is this the first step in creating a secondary NCCC campus? If so, is that feasible or desirable? Might it not be better to investigate whether this could redeveloped into a new campus and the Sanborn campus sold?
This property is said to be worth millions, but it has stood virtually empty for 10-15 years, and Kordish has not been successful in doing anything much with it in recent years. It seems to me that that kind of building really isn't "worth millions" at all. Look at the Statler in Buffalo -- maybe in NYC or Philly it's worth millions but here in Buffalo, it's worth about $750,000 -- and even that sale may fall through. That says to me that the Rainbow Center is not nearly as valuable as Kordish and others claim. Is this just a scam to stick NCCC with a white elephant while getting the developer fat tax breaks for his "donation".

[300miles]

In the article it says the school would use a third of the building and the rest "would then be turned over to the city and its state development agency for redevelopment."

If that's the case then what he's really doing is handing the property over to the city of Niagara Falls, with the Culinary School getting guaranteed dibs on whatever it wants first.

It sounds like good news for the school, but given NF's track record on development, it leaves the rest of the property up in the air for quite some time.

[Jim Ostrowski]

Great. Another advance of the public sector over the private. Just what we need.

[cookie]

Does Cordish get the same tax breaks he would get if he owned the property outright?
As for its worth, I think a major portion of the worth isn't the building itself, but add the additional acre and the proximity to the Falls. who knows.
Maintenance-if part is going to the City, would the maintenance costs all fall on NCCC?

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Developer David Cordish wants to donate the Rainbow Center to NCCC for its Culinary Institute and Tourism program. (Rainbow Center (http://www.buffalonews.com/city/communities/niagara-county/article221840.ece)). At first glance, that sounds great. However, there are some implications that need to be considered:

the property would come off the tax rolls
NCCC would become responsible for the maintenance, which runs Cordish about $400,000 annually
NCCC only needs about 1/3 of the space in the building. What happens to the rest of it?
How will this impact NCCC students who will need to take regular college courses as well as courses located at the Culinary Institute?
Is this the first step in creating a secondary NCCC campus? If so, is that feasible or desirable? Might it not be better to investigate whether this could redeveloped into a new campus and the Sanborn campus sold?

This property is said to be worth millions, but it has stood virtually empty for 10-15 years, and Kordish has not been successful in doing anything much with it in recent years. It seems to me that that kind of building really isn't "worth millions" at all. Look at the Statler in Buffalo -- maybe in NYC or Philly it's worth millions but here in Buffalo, it's worth about $750,000 -- and even that sale may fall through. That says to me that the Rainbow Center is not nearly as valuable as Kordish and others claim. Is this just a scam to stick NCCC with a white elephant while getting the developer fat tax breaks for his "donation".


I doubt this property even has a positive value. DT Niagara Falls is a disgrace and it is only compounded by the view of the successful NF on the other side of the river.


The only way I could see NF coming back is if they allowed 3-4 casino/hotel complexes to be built on the various parcels of land. Doing this would actually help the Culinary Institute and Tourism program as there would be businesses that actually serviced tourists and served food that needed people with a culinary degree.

[Linda_D]

I doubt this property even has a positive value. DT Niagara Falls is a disgrace and it is only compounded by the view of the successful NF on the other side of the river.

I agree about the value of the property, and that's what raises the red flags to me. This guy couldn't get a deal worked out with NCCC to lease part of it, but then he gives it to the school. I think he's dumping it and aiming to get a multiple millions off his tax bill because of his "charitable" donation.

[300miles]

That's fine by me. The guy wasn't doing anything with it... for how many years? It very well may sit in someone else's hands for many more years, but at least someone else will get a shot at it. I just don't have much faith in the city govt doing the right thing here... they tend to make even worse decisions than Buffalo does. Although I think they did a really good job with the Old Falls Street redo.

[cookie]

It's easier to springboard off of something than nothing. But really, everyone should concentrate on some guy getting tax breaks, don't you think?

I think the article already touched on stuff like bakeries, cafes, etc. How about a shop that offers bento box type lunches for tourists that want to hike around Goat Island? Maybe share that shop with something to cover the winter tourist season. Take some of the Seneca money to build a small skating rink and use that shop for skate rental in the winter.
How about bicycle rental?

Maybe a gift shop or 2?

A pub/bar wouldn't be out of place. Maybe a Spot Coffee?

Are the culinary students required to take other classes?
Can some of the space be turned into student housing and day care?
How about trying for a beauty school and possibly offer day spa type services for tourists? Even during recessive economic times, many people on vacation still like a little pampering, especially international ones.

Some of these ideas might seem silly, but being old school TQM, I'm one that believes even some of the silliest ideas can trigger other more viable ideas.

[300miles]

Those are all great ideas. They need to reconfigure it to create street life instead of a purely indoor mall.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Those are all great ideas. They need to reconfigure it to create street life instead of a purely indoor mall.

Whatever they do...they have to outdo the Canadian side. That is the biggest problem I see. Why would anyone want to spend the day on the US side when they could on the Canadian site? The only reason I see now is if they do not have a passport and maybe want to do shopping.

The Canadian side already has 10x more stuff for both adults and families, it is cleaner AND comes with a much better view of the falls.

[cookie]

I'm not sure they have to outdo them, just offer something different and appealing. It's not like there's an iron curtain and you have to pick one side or the other. Unless maybe someone is there for just a day.

Pub/bar made me think maybe a microbrewery?

Crafting is big business these days, maybe some kind of "make your own souvenir" crafting workshop?

Good point Miles about some street stuff as well. They have an acre that goes along with the mall.

[300miles]

A lot of the offerings on the Canadian side (aside from the view of the falls themselves) tend to be around Casinos or Kids stuff. There is an opportunity for the NY NF to go more for the grown-up crowd without the wax museums and arcades that make most people over 25 cringe. Not that they don't have grown-up attractions there too, but it definitely has a bit of a circus atmosphere. I really hope NY is not trying to emulate that entirely.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I'm not sure they have to outdo them, just offer something different and appealing. It's not like there's an iron curtain and you have to pick one side or the other. Unless maybe someone is there for just a day.

Pub/bar made me think maybe a microbrewery?

Crafting is big business these days, maybe some kind of "make your own souvenir" crafting workshop?

Good point Miles about some street stuff as well. They have an acre that goes along with the mall.


Cookie - love the idea of making your own but that takes days-weeks. Those are called nanobreweries. They have a couple in San Diego. If you ever get a chance to go to one..do it. They make crazy awesome beer.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

A lot of the offerings on the Canadian side (aside from the view of the falls themselves) tend to be around Casinos or Kids stuff. There is an opportunity for the NY NF to go more for the grown-up crowd without the wax museums and arcades that make most people over 25 cringe. Not that they don't have grown-up attractions there too, but it definitely has a bit of a circus atmosphere. I really hope NY is not trying to emulate that entirely.


But if not casinos/kids stuff...what else is there?

Say the target audience is 21-35 w/out kids. What can you put in the Falls that would make it a destination?



Shopping is down the road and I do not see that moving.
Bars & Restaurants need people and casinos/kids stuff brings people.
The park is nice...I spent about 2 hours there people watching but I would not do that when it is cold or raining.


I understand how you would cringe at some of those attractions. They have similar in San Diego. Yet, every weekday and weekend, those things have swarms of people around them.

[cookie]

Cookie - love the idea of making your own but that takes days-weeks. Those are called nanobreweries. They have a couple in San Diego. If you ever get a chance to go to one..do it. They make crazy awesome beer.
Actually, nanobrewery was what I was thinking, but nano just wouldn't come to me at the moment. I hate beer but hubby would love it. He went through the obligatory home brewing phase.
Maybe the whole start to finish pottery takes too long, but start with already made blank plates, cups, shakers, etc. and let them paint or decal them. That doesn't take days. I'm sure Buffalo China could use some business. 2 birds, 1 stone.
A workshop with scrapbooking supplies and a few printers to print out pics they've taken with their digital camera? No more post-vacation procrastinating!

Wasn't there some kind of gem thing on this side of the falls?

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Actually, nanobrewery was what I was thinking, but nano just wouldn't come to me at the moment. I hate beer but hubby would love it. He went through the obligatory home brewing phase.
Maybe the whole start to finish pottery takes too long, but start with already made blank plates, cups, shakers, etc. and let them paint or decal them. That doesn't take days. I'm sure Buffalo China could use some business. 2 birds, 1 stone.
A workshop with scrapbooking supplies and a few printers to print out pics they've taken with their digital camera? No more post-vacation procrastinating!

Wasn't there some kind of gem thing on this side of the falls?


Oh..I read your comment wrong. I thought you were talking about making custom beer in a day visit to the falls.

[cookie]

Oh..I read your comment wrong. I thought you were talking about making custom beer in a day visit to the falls.

Well, that would be cool, but no, it was separate ideas. :)

[Linda_D]

It's easier to springboard off of something than nothing. But really, everyone should concentrate on some guy getting tax breaks, don't you think?

My concern is about the college being able to afford the maintenance, particularly since the college only wanted 1/3 of the building. It's obvious that Cordish wants to get out from under this building.

The problem with locating student housing in the building is that it's separated from the NCCC main campus (that's in Sanborn).

[BorderBob]

Whatever they do...they have to outdo the Canadian side. That is the biggest problem I see. Why would anyone want to spend the day on the US side when they could on the Canadian site? The only reason I see now is if they do not have a passport and maybe want to do shopping.

Niagara Falls NY does not have to outdo the Canadian side. We just need to participate. I work downtown and there are plenty of people walking the American side, there is just not anything for them to do here.

Maybe this will be a start (over).


b.b.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Niagara Falls NY does not have to outdo the Canadian side. We just need to participate. I work downtown and there are plenty of people walking the American side, there is just not anything for them to do here.

Maybe this will be a start (over).


b.b.

So the question again is what could be built to provide people something to do?

If you have a couple on vacation from say Pittsburgh, and they have a passport, what exactly could the US side offer that would be more enticing than crossing the border to the Canadian side?

If you have the same couple from Pittsburgh, without a passport, what would be enough of a draw for them to come to NF USA over NYC or Chicago or another vacation destination?


I know three things as it relates to this conversation:

1 - Regardless of what people think about the quality of attractions on the Canadian side, whatever they are doing is successful. So I really do not buy into the idea of not trying to outdo a proven success.

2 - From what I have read, only 20%-30% of Americans have passports. That is a tremendous amount of people who are not able to cross the border to go visit the Canadian side.

3 - The Falls is still the Falls but it is just the Falls. It is a great sight to see but in order to get people from just a driving distance to come, you need to provide more than looking at the falls. That takes just a couple of hours.


So in my opinion you need to create something that is unique, in addition to the Falls, to make it worth the drive up for a weekend. This is why I said allow for a casino cluster. Outside of gambling, these could bring a ton of spinoff.

I have been to Las Vegas over 10 times in the last 5 years and I have only gambled for less than a couple of hours...total. I go for shows, UFC fights, great food and clubs. Still have yet to go see a boxing match but I hear the town is simply electric when there is a good fight.

This type of spin off only happens when there is a cluster of casinos. Simply having one does not bring enough people. For example, while I may stay at one hotel, I will go to a show in another and have dinner in a third.

What if NF became a destination for people who want the Vegas experience but do not want to fly to Vegas? You could draw people from Upstate NY, Pennsylvania and Ohio.

[300miles]

I think it really boils down to the exact same issues facing Buffalo with Canalside. On one hand you need a draw that brings people in from outside. On the other hand you need a diverse range of maintainable businesses that give the area ongoing life.

The draw of course is The Falls. The notion that only the Canadian side has a good view of the falls is an overblown cliche. While the Canadian side does have the classic postcard views, only the American side can get you up close an personal with the rapids and falls. And the US side Parks are more naturally beautiful than the more formalized gardens on the Canadian side. This is good because both sides offer something unique. Unfortunately the US side doesn't market itself the right way.

The maintainable businesses should be the real city that NF has lacked downtown. Lots of unique bars, fun dance clubs, cool restaurants (some cheap dives, some fancy), lots of patios and outdoor parties in the warmer months. That why I think the renovation to Old Falls street holds good potential. They created A Place to be. Now they just need the businesses that keep people there. And this needs to be done all over downtown, not just one street.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I think it really boils down to the exact same issues facing Buffalo with Canalside. On one hand you need a draw that brings people in from outside. On the other hand you need a diverse range of maintainable businesses that give the area ongoing life.

The draw of course is The Falls. The notion that only the Canadian side has a good view of the falls is an overblown cliche. While the Canadian side does have the classic postcard views, only the American side can get you up close an personal with the rapids and falls. And the US side Parks are more naturally beautiful than the more formalized gardens on the Canadian side. This is good because both sides offer something unique. Unfortunately the US side doesn't market itself the right way.

The maintainable businesses should be the real city that NF has lacked downtown. Lots of unique bars, fun dance clubs, cool restaurants (some cheap dives, some fancy), lots of patios and outdoor parties in the warmer months. That why I think the renovation to Old Falls street holds good potential. They created A Place to be. Now they just need the businesses that keep people there. And this needs to be done all over downtown, not just one street.


I see where you are going...I just do not see it working.

If you think the view of the falls is an overblown cliche, just look at the hotel prices on the Canadian side with said view. It is not a cliche...it is real money. Sure you can get closer on the American side...but 'doing the falls' on the American side can be done in under 3hrs. I know..because I just did it and I was looking for more to do to justify the $10 I paid for parking.

In regards to the idea of unique bars, fun dance clubs, cool restaurants..I agree. But in order to make those travel worthy...they need to have some serious backing and have a serious draw. I just do not see a couple from Pittsburgh driving up to the Falls for the weekend with a version of Elmwood Lite.

I do some web development work for a promotions company in SoCal. They are trying to bring a DJ that goes by the name deadmau5 (http://www.deadmau5.com/). Booking fee for a single night - $65,000. That is NOT a typo. When he plays in Vegas, he can sell out a 3,000 person club at $30 a head + the bottle service that goes with it. People will travel from several states to see a DJ like that. "Dance Clubs", with local resident DJs who have a day job and play a remix of Kiss 98.5, are not going to bring in people from out of the area.

Here is another challenge. If you are talking about bringing in people to the Falls from outside of the region...just where are they going to stay? Outside of the Casino and Hotel Giacomo, NF is mostly motels or 2start dumps.



Let me frame this another way. Do you think that if NYS were to allow 4 Hotel Casinos to be build in DT Niagara Falls, would there be 4 Casino Developers who would buy in? 100% on the tax rolls and all of the stuff the Seneca Casino does not do. 4 Casinos with 400+ rooms each. Each with a "BIG CLUB" like every Vegas Hotel + Spas + Concert Venues + Convention Space...

I think there would be. It would also solve every.single.problem for the Falls and dump enough money to fix most of the other issues in the County/Region. That is all I am trying to say.

It would be a silver bullet that would work and would not cost anything. It is not like the number of degenerate gamblers is going to go up with 5 options to blow their paycheck instead of 1. The 'challenges' are already there.

[300miles]

If you think the view of the falls is an overblown cliche, just look at the hotel prices on the Canadian side with said view. It is not a cliche...it is real money.
Good point. The view of the falls from a highrise is a perk we just don't have on our side for the most part. But there's little to be done about that unless we allow hotels on the brink, which will never (and should never) happen. On the other hand, NF Ontario's booming skyline is itself becoming a stunning view that can only be seen in full from the US side, and is something we need to market ourselves with.


Sure you can get closer on the American side...but 'doing the falls' on the American side can be done in under 3hrs.
IMO - 'doing the falls' on either side is limited, even on the Canadian side. The Falls themselves, dramatic as they are, only captivate people for so long and then they move on. What they move on to is where NY is lacking. Both sides have dramatic views, boat rides, cave access, etc. But the NY is more limited in restaurants, hotels, and attractions.


In regards to the idea of unique bars, fun dance clubs, cool restaurants..I agree. But in order to make those travel worthy...they need to have some serious backing and have a serious draw. I just do not see a couple from Pittsburgh driving up to the Falls for the weekend with a version of Elmwood Lite.

I do some web development work for a promotions company in SoCal. They are trying to bring a DJ that goes by the name deadmau5 (http://www.deadmau5.com/). Booking fee for a single night - $65,000. That is NOT a typo. When he plays in Vegas, he can sell out a 3,000 person club at $30 a head + the bottle service that goes with it. People will travel from several states to see a DJ like that. "Dance Clubs", with local resident DJs who have a day job and play a remix of Kiss 98.5, are not going to bring in people from out of the area.
I wasn't trying to imply that people would come to NF for their world renowned dance clubs. Just that they should have fun dance clubs. (Although that could be something of an attraction... not sure if the investment would fly though) We don't necessarily need deadmau5 to make clubs worthwhile. I've been in clubs in other cities that were known locally for their good music. It didn't really matter that the place was just a local haunt with an unknown DJ that had burned the music to CD the night before and was basically just playing the recording. The place was fun, the music was incredible, the bar was packed, and that's what mattered.


Outside of the Casino and Hotel Giacomo, NF is mostly motels or 2start dumps.
I agree. NFNY needs more modern hotel space.


Do you think that if NYS were to allow 4 Hotel Casinos to be build in DT Niagara Falls, would there be 4 Casino Developers who would buy in? 100% on the tax rolls and all of the stuff the Seneca Casino does not do.
Yes, and I've said that to friends before too. IMO if NY wanted to have ANY casinos, they should have erased the laws barring gambling and set out bids for several competing casinos to setup shop in specified areas to be run as regular tax-paying businesses. Instead, they kept gambling "illegal" while signing an exclusive contract with the senecas that banned any competition. It was a stupid short-sighted move that once again shows how incompetent Albany truly is.

[Linda_D]

Yes, and I've said that to friends before too. IMO if NY wanted to have ANY casinos, they should have erased the laws barring gambling and set out bids for several competing casinos to setup shop in specified areas to be run as regular tax-paying businesses. Instead, they kept gambling "illegal" while signing an exclusive contract with the senecas that banned any competition. It was a stupid short-sighted move that once again shows how incompetent Albany truly is.

Actually, it wasn't Albany that kept casinos out of NFNY but Buffalo pols and the voters. Since the anti-gambling statute is part of the NYS Constitution, it can only be amended when proposed amendments have been approved by the voters. The last attempt to make casinos legal was to limit it to "resort areas" of NFNY and the Catskills.

Well, the thought of NF having casinos and Buffalo not getting in on the gravy train led local Buffalo pols to work to defeat the referendum. With typical Buffalo myopia, if Buffalo wasn't going to get a casino or three, nobody would. The usual suspects opposed to gambling in general -- the morality police, the "we're too good for casinos" crowd, etc -- also worked to sabotage passage. Then the feds and the federal courts decided that states had to allow Indian casinos, so this is how we are where we are.

While it's in vogue to blame everything on the governor and the legislature, this isn't really their fault. You can argue that the state shouldn't have granted the Senecas exclusivity, but I have no doubt that it was the only way they could get more revenues, especially in the face of the strength of the anti-gambling forces which are still fighting the Seneca casinos.

As Pogo said, "we have met the enemy, and he is us."

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Actually, it wasn't Albany that kept casinos out of NFNY but Buffalo pols and the voters. Since the anti-gambling statute is part of the NYS Constitution, it can only be amended when proposed amendments have been approved by the voters. The last attempt to make casinos legal was to limit it to "resort areas" of NFNY and the Catskills.

Well, the thought of NF having casinos and Buffalo not getting in on the gravy train led local Buffalo pols to work to defeat the referendum. With typical Buffalo myopia, if Buffalo wasn't going to get a casino or three, nobody would. The usual suspects opposed to gambling in general -- the morality police, the "we're too good for casinos" crowd, etc -- also worked to sabotage passage. Then the feds and the federal courts decided that states had to allow Indian casinos, so this is how we are where we are.

While it's in vogue to blame everything on the governor and the legislature, this isn't really their fault. You can argue that the state shouldn't have granted the Senecas exclusivity, but I have no doubt that it was the only way they could get more revenues, especially in the face of the strength of the anti-gambling forces which is still fighting the Seneca casinos.

Interesting stuff....thanks for the history lesson. Just another what could have been.


As Pogo said, "we have met the enemy, and he is us."

So true.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Yes, and I've said that to friends before too. IMO if NY wanted to have ANY casinos, they should have erased the laws barring gambling and set out bids for several competing casinos to setup shop in specified areas to be run as regular tax-paying businesses. Instead, they kept gambling "illegal" while signing an exclusive contract with the senecas that banned any competition. It was a stupid short-sighted move that once again shows how incompetent Albany truly is.

As Linda pointed out, the incompetence should be directed elsewhere but one has to wonder why it could not be corrected...

It's too late now but Paul Dyster could have gone out and at least taken some meeting over the last year or so. He could have tried to find those 4 Casino developers and asked a simple question...if you are allowed to build it, would you come?

If he could have gotten the YES, he could have announced this interest when the Seneca tax dispute hit the press. It would have allowed him to offer an alternative to Albany and given them another ace in the deck.

If you think the Seneca Nation is upset about some slot machines in Hamburg..just think what their reaction would be to 4 new casinos in Niagara Falls would have been.

The reason I say it is too late is this could have been an election issue. Thompson, who is owned by the COB but also represents DT Niagara Falls, would have had to come out on the issue. Thompson is already being called out for ignoring parts of his district, not inside of the city, so this would only compound the issue. Grisanti could have had a field day.

Just what politician, in an election, could say no to the 1,000s of jobs, tax dollars and development that 4 casinos would bring? When not in an election and in Albany, it is much easier to ignore these things. Which is why the BS that Linda pointed out happened in the first place.

[Dougles]

I wonder what his tax write off is.... Didn't Retard Thompson just give this guy $400K of our money?

[300miles]

Actually, it wasn't Albany that kept casinos out of NFNY but Buffalo pols and the voters....

I wasn't aware of that. Thanks.

Seems like there have been a lot of lost opportunities with the way proposed NYS Constitutional changes are handled.

[cookie]

I wonder what his tax write off is....

I wondered about that too, especially since he doesn't actually own the property


Didn't Retard Thompson just give this guy $400K of our money?

No, that was another group. From the Snooze:
the grant to a company controlled by Howard P. Milstein, a New York City billionaire who it said had delivered little development for Niagara Falls “despite an agreement” to invest $110 million here.
http://www.buffalonews.com/city/article205820.ece

[shortstuff]

Developer David Cordish wants to donate the Rainbow Center to NCCC for its Culinary Institute and Tourism program. (Rainbow Center (http://www.buffalonews.com/city/communities/niagara-county/article221840.ece)). At first glance, that sounds great. However, there are some implications that need to be considered:

the property would come off the tax rolls
NCCC would become responsible for the maintenance, which runs Cordish about $400,000 annually
NCCC only needs about 1/3 of the space in the building. What happens to the rest of it?
How will this impact NCCC students who will need to take regular college courses as well as courses located at the Culinary Institute?
Is this the first step in creating a secondary NCCC campus? If so, is that feasible or desirable? Might it not be better to investigate whether this could redeveloped into a new campus and the Sanborn campus sold?
This property is said to be worth millions, but it has stood virtually empty for 10-15 years, and Kordish has not been successful in doing anything much with it in recent years. It seems to me that that kind of building really isn't "worth millions" at all. Look at the Statler in Buffalo -- maybe in NYC or Philly it's worth millions but here in Buffalo, it's worth about $750,000 -- and even that sale may fall through. That says to me that the Rainbow Center is not nearly as valuable as Kordish and others claim. Is this just a scam to stick NCCC with a white elephant while getting the developer fat tax breaks for his "donation".

I think it's a wonderful idea to have NCCC locate it's Culinary Institute and Tourism Program at the Rainbow Mall. Tourism, what better place to have a great program. That building is sitting vacant, why not use it. Perhaps housing would occupy other parts of the mall, perhaps restaurants might occupy other parts of the mall due to the Institute. Point is, it is a great place for NCCC to have another site.

The Mayor Dyster, who is a wonderful person and is doing a great job is opening up the doors for development to come back into Niagara Falls.

All it takes is one idea, and watch it spin. People need to embrace education and spin off companies. NCCC and ECCC are becoming an affordable way to obtain education.

Wake up people, this is a great idea.

Linda, you don't live here, worry about your own town.

[Linda_D]

I think it's a wonderful idea to have NCCC locate it's Culinary Institute and Tourism Program at the Rainbow Mall. Tourism, what better place to have a great program. That building is sitting vacant, why not use it. Perhaps housing would occupy other parts of the mall, perhaps restaurants might occupy other parts of the mall due to the Institute. Point is, it is a great place for NCCC to have another site.

The Mayor Dyster, who is a wonderful person and is doing a great job is opening up the doors for development to come back into Niagara Falls.

All it takes is one idea, and watch it spin. People need to embrace education and spin off companies. NCCC and ECCC are becoming an affordable way to obtain education.

Wake up people, this is a great idea.

Linda, you don't live here, worry about your own town.

Nowhere did I oppose the idea of the programs being downtown. I do question the "gift" of this building to the college, however. There's a big cost difference between a college leasing just the space it needs to launch a new program and maintaining an aging building that contains 3 times the space it needs. Who pays the difference, shortstuff? It's your tax money, not mine, since my local community college minds its money carefully.

Moreover, if Cordish, who has been a successful developer elsewhere, couldn't develop the Rainbow Centre, I fail to see how NCCC is going to do it. As for NCCC being a catalyst for redevelopment, you might want to check out all the development that hasn't spun off from the ECC City Campus which has been in downtown Buffalo for almost 30 years now.

[cookie]

does the downtown ecc campus offer programs that are conducive to spin-offs?
the spin-offs hoped for (for now) at nccc/rainbow centre are a direct result of the culinary program.

[Linda_D]

does the downtown ecc campus offer programs that are conducive to spin-offs?
the spin-offs hoped for (for now) at nccc/rainbow centre are a direct result of the culinary program.

The idea of the community colleges as a spur to development just isn't shown anywhere in NYS, although civic boosters like to pretend they will be when arguing for new campuses. The fact is that community colleges aren't research facilities so there's no technology to "spin off" from college programs. Since students are primarily commuters who come to campus, attend classes, and then leave, even businesses catering to students seldom take root around community colleges. Even community colleges that have student housing on/near campus don't generate much "spin off business" because the number of resident students (generally a few hundred at most) is too small to impact the area unless it's in a really, really small town -- and I don't know of any NYS CCs that are located in really small towns.

Virtually all development around community colleges either predates the campuses or grew without regard to the campus' existence all. Development around ECC North or South campuses is because of the growth of commercial areas of Amherst and Hamburg/OP not because there are college campuses there. Genessee CC sits next to the Thruway amid farm fields. The shopping plaza outside the main entrance to Hudson Valley CC and the commerical strip along Second Street near JCC both pre-date the building of those college campuses.

[cookie]

exactly.
This will probably be a first as far as comm. college -> spin-off business directly attributable to it.

[shortstuff]

Nowhere did I oppose the idea of the programs being downtown. I do question the "gift" of this building to the college, however. There's a big cost difference between a college leasing just the space it needs to launch a new program and maintaining an aging building that contains 3 times the space it needs. Who pays the difference, shortstuff? It's your tax money, not mine, since my local community college minds its money carefully.

Moreover, if Cordish, who has been a successful developer elsewhere, couldn't develop the Rainbow Centre, I fail to see how NCCC is going to do it. As for NCCC being a catalyst for redevelopment, you might want to check out all the development that hasn't spun off from the ECC City Campus which has been in downtown Buffalo for almost 30 years now.

You are really way off base. Community Colleges are the beginning of that process. UB has lost it's vision for 2020, they also had a tuition increase in which the State took that money from UB and used it for something else. The University will have to do another rate increase which might put it out of the ball park for "affordable" education. This is where community colleges come into play, young students will invariably go to a community college before starting their education at a University. NCCC has great programs that actually will enable a young adult to spin off from the college and start companies like a restaurant etc.

Re-development is stimulated by collegiate processes. I know of many who have started a company based on their degree from a community college. If at best, this leads them to a career path through more education that will direct them to a small business mindset. It is the foundation of small companies that our area thrives on.

[shortstuff]

The idea of the community colleges as a spur to development just isn't shown anywhere in NYS, although civic boosters like to pretend they will be when arguing for new campuses. The fact is that community colleges aren't research facilities so there's no technology to "spin off" from college programs. Since students are primarily commuters who come to campus, attend classes, and then leave, even businesses catering to students seldom take root around community colleges. Even community colleges that have student housing on/near campus don't generate much "spin off business" because the number of resident students (generally a few hundred at most) is too small to impact the area unless it's in a really, really small town -- and I don't know of any NYS CCs that are located in really small towns.

Virtually all development around community colleges either predates the campuses or grew without regard to the campus' existence all. Development around ECC North or South campuses is because of the growth of commercial areas of Amherst and Hamburg/OP not because there are college campuses there. Genessee CC sits next to the Thruway amid farm fields. The shopping plaza outside the main entrance to Hudson Valley CC and the commerical strip along Second Street near JCC both pre-date the building of those college campuses.

Wow, you are also wrong in this viewpoint. NCCC has grown in Niagara County, they have put in housing for students, which they did not have in the past, new home developments have cropped up around the area. Technology is not a precursor to spin off. Culinary will definately take off in Niagara Falls, Tourism will take off because it is a touristy environment.

The fact that this is a consideration means in locating another division of the college in another areas, is development 101. Niagara Falls has new birth to it because of Dyster making that area have a vision.

I hope they do it, and I know it will succeed.

[300miles]

More info and some early renderings here. It looks like they are doing the right thing by re-orienting some shops to face outdoors and create street life. This is the Old Falls street side. A barnes and noble will be a nice addition too.

http://www.buffalorising.com/2010/11/decrepit-mall-to-receive-long-overdue-makeover.html

[shortstuff]

More info and some early renderings here. It looks like they are doing the right thing by re-orienting some shops to face outdoors and create street life. This is the Old Falls street side. A barnes and noble will be a nice addition too.

http://www.buffalorising.com/2010/11/decrepit-mall-to-receive-long-overdue-makeover.html

Awesome 300, just read that, it is wonderful to read that.

In "The Daily Progress" by Bryan McKenzie he has stated below:

{Community Colleges serve the community, from helping local businesses train employee's to providing transfer opportunities to working with students.}

He continues to state: "The most important factor companies look for in communities is a well-educated workforce , and community colleges help provide that."