Don't waste millions luring Bass Pro Shop

[WNYresident]

From www.buffalo.com opinion page.

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Don't waste millions luring Bass Pro Shop

5/7/2004

A recent News article reported that the state will offer $80 million to lure Bass Pro to Buffalo. Who sets the priorities for the spending of this money? We live in an area where senior citizens cannot afford to buy life-sustaining prescription drugs. Schools are closing and extracurricular activities for the children are being eliminated. Firefighters are being laid off at such a rate that homes are no longer safe. Police officers risk their lives every day in patrol cars alone.
I understand that the funds were "found" after another well-intentioned business failed to fulfill its promise to revitalize the waterfront. But there are better uses for this money. Let's protect the neighborhoods against fire emergencies and make homes safe. Let's fight crime in the city by properly staffing the Police Department. And let's make sure our seniors are provided for first.

Our area already has several excellent stores catering to the needs of sports enthusiasts. I realize that a few jobs will come to the region once the store opens. However, I would feel a lot better putting that huge sum of money into improving public education and providing a safe environment.

VIRGINIA A. BEYER
West Seneca

[WNYresident]

Couldn't agree with this person more with this person.

We have sport stores within 20 minutes of buffalo as it is. $80,000,000 is basically $80 per person in erie county.

Don't you enjoy our politicians giving your money away. Only people that will benifit are the developers and a group of businessmen trying to finance thier business with your tax money.

Give them a tax break seeing that's money we never had in the first place.

So tell me if i'm wrong.. is there actually $80,000,000 in cash in some way the politicains are handing to some business group?

[yokes]

While I understand the writers point there is an old phrase something like this.

Give a man a fish and they eat great today, teach a man to fish and they eat great forever.

We need to build up the economy here and create new jobs, and new infrastructure to support all the social programs. I know its chicken and egg, but without jobs the tax base will continue to decline. We need to plan long term

[WNYresident]

Yes but not retail jobs that pay low. jobs are jobs but you get to the point that low paying jobs don't return enough to the community as a whole for the amount of money put into them..

Lets say bass pro hired 40 people at $8 per hour. $320 per hour X 40 hours = $12,800 a week. Take $80,000,000 and you can support those people for 6250 weeks or 120 years.

Seems like the cost per job as the investment is too high for a good return.

[yokes]

have to have a mix of jobs in any economy. I think your $8.00 may be low on average, but I could be wrong I havent seen any data

[WNYresident]

Anyone know what the average retail floor job pays in our area?

[|- Amherst Stakeholder -|]

Originally posted by WNYresident
Yes but not retail jobs that pay low. jobs are jobs but you get to the point that low paying jobs don't return enough to the community as a whole for the amount of money put into them..

Lets say bass pro hired 40 people at $8 per hour. $320 per hour X 40 hours = $12,800 a week. Take $80,000,000 and you can support those people for 6250 weeks or 120 years.

Seems like the cost per job as the investment is too high for a good return.

Actually, even if the pay was $20 per hour the $80 million would cover about 48 years for the 40 employees.

[WNYresident]

Doesn't seem odd to spend or offer than much for such little return to the community. I'm not saying any 40 jobs is nothing to sneeze at, but $80,000,000 in what ever to create 40 is not a good investment.

Well the only ones making good on this are the owners of basspro and the developers who donate to the politicians campaigns....

[yokes]

I've been out of retail for almost 15 years so I dont claim to be an expert.

to run a store of this size I dont think 40 is an accurate count. Was that reported somewhere? I would think it would be more in the 200-300 ranges. (FT/PT combine)

the 80mm in question is part of an overall incentive package

"The state's offer to bring a Bass Pro Shops Outdoor World to the inner harbor is a move in that direction. It would provide an attraction that, based on experiences in other states, could be expected to draw large numbers of people from several states and Canada, bringing new dollars into the area."

from this article

basspro (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20040429/1013157.asp)

[yokes]

just wanted to clarify

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by yokes
I've been out of retail for almost 15 years so I dont claim to be an expert.

to run a store of this size I dont think 40 is an accurate count. Was that reported somewhere? I would think it would be more in the 200-300 ranges. (FT/PT combine)

the 80mm in question is part of an overall incentive package

"The state's offer to bring a Bass Pro Shops Outdoor World to the inner harbor is a move in that direction. It would provide an attraction that, based on experiences in other states, could be expected to draw large numbers of people from several states and Canada, bringing new dollars into the area."

from this article

basspro (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20040429/1013157.asp)




Everything they ever told us that would bring tourism or rebirth to WNY really never has, has it? So why believe them now?

We have a subway to now where....
We have a arena that didn't spur much growth around it....
We destroyed main street when they closed it off to traffic...
We have a football stadium miles away from the city.....
We have a baseball stadium that really didn't spur any growth....
etc etc etc

[yokes]

agreed.

Lets do nothing instead

Its not a silver bullet but part of an overall plan. IMHO

[WNYresident]

Don't you think Just giving $80,000,000 back to WNY residents would help some? a Check for $80 bucks to each and every person. We then do that trickle down effect and spend it at local retailers. OR... we fix the roads!

[WNYresident]

Think if we didn't build the subway how much more ahead we would all be. How much did that cost us when it was finally done?

[WNYresident]

OH how much has the HSBC cost us? IF we were still using the aud would we really noticed a difference in buffalo?

[yokes]

Originally posted by WNYresident
Don't you think Just giving $80,000,000 back to WNY residents would help some? a Check for $80 bucks to each and every person. We then do that trickle down effect and spend it at local retailers. OR... we fix the roads!

Sure then its gone forever. Fix the roads for the delivery trucks to carry all our stuff out?

I feel your frustration, but development is needed, whether it be Bass Pro, a Peace Bridge, or a Casino. Its nor free, and the area needs to spend to get this type of development.

[citymouse]

Not to get off the question, but I brought this up a week or two ago and was told I was a liar. That there was no eighty million dollar lure to catch bass pro.
I think some one owes me an apology.
Avarage retail jobs pay about a quarter over minimum wage. Most places keep the workers under the minimum required in hours so as not to pay any benefits.
Home depoy is about the best, I hear. They pay between ten and tweleve dollars offer full time and have benefit programs. They also want a staff that knows thier stuff to advise the coustomer on whatever area of do it yourself they are expirienced with.

[|- Amherst Stakeholder -|]

Originally posted by yokes
...Its not a silver bullet but part of an overall plan. IMHO
Ahhhhhh. Now I get it.

But, wait, what is "The Plan"? Is there a "Plan"? I have NEVER EVER seen an economic development plan for Buffalo, Erie County, Western New York or (my favorite ambiguous political catch-all) the Region.

Oh, it sounds really really good... "We've got a plan!" But, honestly, does anyone truly think there is an overall plan? Gimme a break.

Show me the plan, boys & girls.

[yokes]

Actually there are several plans. Giambra's got one, Massiellos got another, BNP has one etc etc etc. The problem is there are 257 different plans and nothing implemented.

I like the idea of just giving the development money to the citizens, thats a great wealth re-distribution initiative, afterall we need more dependent people suckling off the government teet.

Maybe if anyone around here (politician, citizens or special interests) would get off their collective butts to really implement a long term strategy that includes making the region a better place to work and live we wouldnt be having these discussion, but until they do we have to spend this type of money to build the area up.

Problem is when anyone comes up with something there is a collective scream from the unions, the opposing political parties, and the not in my back yard folks all of which have infested this area to the point of not being able to get anything done at all.

Back to the point. Bass Pro. I'd like to point out that there is not a lot of other companies just pounding down the door to locate in buffalo. I'm not saying we should take what we can get, but having bass pro which brings along with it development money is better than a vacant aud and nothing new being acomplished.

Although Im not worried too much, we havent heard from the historical presevationists yet who will probably sue to keep the aud in its current condition. But if they lose and the construction workers arent unionized there will be another suit, and of course the politicians who arent on board now iwll probably sue to, and eventually Bass Pro will just say see ya and we wont have to worry about it

Gotta go cross the new peace bridge now. have a nice day

[WNYresident]

Actually there are several plans. Giambra's got one, Massiellos got another, BNP has one etc etc etc. The problem is there are 257 different plans and nothing implemented.


Are any of these plans in writing though?

[WNYresident]

I like the idea of just giving the development money to the citizens, thats a great wealth re-distribution initiative, afterall we need more dependent people suckling off the government teet.


Issue is i don't like giving my money to other people. The people which seem to benefit the most are the developers who charge to build what the money is being pumped in to. Maybe let the business people keep more of thier money and let them invest in thier OWN businesses versus letting politicains invest "my money
" with thier connected friends.

[WNYresident]

Problem is when anyone comes up with something there is a collective scream from the unions, the opposing political parties, and the not in my back yard folks all of which have infested this area to the point of not being able to get anything done at all.

He's right.