Lancaster Police replacing 2 year old cars

[yaksplat]

From the Buffalo News: http://www.buffalonews.com/105/story/71127.html


• Approved the purchase of six new police cars at $25,163 each, minus the tradein of five 2005 models and one 2003 model for a total trade-in value of $34,100. The total cost to the town, minus trade-in value is $116,878.

It's a shame that money is just thrown away like this. I'd really like to see justification for replacing cars that are just two years old. Do they already have 200,000 miles on each car? Even then, the main reason that a car wears out in this area is rust. I'd really be surprised if the cars completely rusted out in two years.

My last car had 248,000 miles on it and when 12 years old when I finally replaced it. It's funny how much longer a car lasts when it's your own money.

[PaulJonson]

Your car isn't responsible to parol 24/7 and rack up thousands and thousands of miles. You probably did not put on 5,000 miles a month either.

If you want to know something, just call up your town hall and ask them what the specifics are with the deal or how many miles are on the cars. I'm sure you would be surprised.

[yaksplat]

If that's honestly the case and the engines and transmissions are shot, then replace them. $5000 will give you a completely new powertrain.

[WNYresident]

If that's honestly the case and the engines and transmissions are shot, then replace them. $5000 will give you a completely new powertrain.

He does have a point. Wouldn't that be the wiser thing to do? Or does the car dealer who give's campaign donations like the repeat business. That's new police accessories profits like the back seat barriers, the lights that get mounted, graphics and everything else. Those items may not be billed with the car but billed by themselves. Maybe not.

[colossus27]

Your car isn't responsible to parol 24/7 and rack up thousands and thousands of miles. You probably did not put on 5,000 miles a month either.

If you want to know something, just call up your town hall and ask them what the specifics are with the deal or how many miles are on the cars. I'm sure you would be surprised.

Given the way the cops needlessly blast around my neighborhood, from stopsign to stopsign, I'm not at all surprised about this. These cops beat the crap out of these cars.

Anybody that doesn't believe me is welcome to PM me, and I'll tell you what neighborhoods to watch.

[Ms.Depew.to.you]

Given the way the cops needlessly blast around my neighborhood, from stopsign to stopsign, I'm not at all surprised about this. These cops beat the crap out of these cars.

Anybody that doesn't believe me is welcome to PM me, and I'll tell you what neighborhoods to watch.

You beat me to it. They slam on the gas, fly down the residential streets until they slam on the brakes at the stopsigns. My car would be beat to hell if i drove like that too.

[Harry Applesack]

Given the way the cops needlessly blast around my neighborhood, from stopsign to stopsign, I'm not at all surprised about this. These cops beat the crap out of these cars.

Anybody that doesn't believe me is welcome to PM me, and I'll tell you what neighborhoods to watch.


Why do we need to PM you? Why don't you just tell us which neighborhoods to watch?

[PaulJonson]

Why do we need to PM you? Why don't you just tell us which neighborhoods to watch?

It's a secret....ssshhhhhhhhhh

[colossus27]

Why do we need to PM you? Why don't you just tell us which neighborhoods to watch?

Because.

[4248]

Let's see - they ( Lancaster Town Board Members) cried in the Buff News about the Volunteers being "Lacks in controlling expenditures"($200.00) - Then the same Town Board increases their budgets and get new "Luxury Vehicles for the Chiefs ! (Lancaster Tax Dollars)

The Town Board spent a large pile of "Lancaster Payer Money " on the Cole Craft Building - Future Police Station - then we find out all their original published estimates were about 50% short of actual/future Tax Dollars needed to "Rehab/refurbish" this building (recent projections) - even though the building is serving no present purpose - it is costing Lancaster Tax Payers every day - besides utilities - there are Lancaster Employees there practically every day (More tax Dollars)!


Now , we see a small fleet of "New Patrol Cars" being purchased ! As someone pointed out the $110,000.00 tax dollars being spent is not the "End of That Story."

They will need to purchase : Window tint for each car , emergency lights for each car , fancy vinyl graphics for each car , Electronics for each car-including computers and communications equipment .

Of course the work will be done at their favorite "Campaign Contributors" dealership (except the parts of those jobs the dealer farms out) . No competitive bidding - no looking for better deals - just another "Payback" for the "Faithful Party Donors."

My guess the cost of these unexposed extras would be about $3 to 5000.00 per car(Tax Dollars).



--- I have no problems with the men or women who serve as Police or Volunteer Firefighters - Just the ever Tax Inflating/spending habits of the present "Lancaster Controlling Town Board Members" :D

[VegasDude]

It's cheaper to just trade them in because the patrol cars take a beating
and are on the road 24/7. If they keep them with high millage the
maintance and repair bills would cost more then what new patrol cars cost
Pretty much every year they get 5 or 6 new cars. Maybe they should look into leasing them like Depew does?

[therising]

Replacing 2-year old cars does seem a bit odd. Knowing nothing about cop cars, I'd be curious to see how often other towns replace them.

However, blaming cops for the way they drive is just nonsense.

Saying, "I'll tell you more if you PM me" is also nonsense. If you're willing to share your info with anyone who PM's you, why not do it on the Board?

[PaulJonson]

Everyone hates them till they need them.

[therising]

Everyone hates them till they need them.

Actually, there's a lot of tough guys on here with the "I don't need any cops, I got Smith and Wesson to protect me" attitudes. :rolleyes:

[PaulJonson]

Actually, there's a lot of tough guys on here with the "I don't need any cops, I got Smith and Wesson to protect me" attitudes. :rolleyes:

The police can do 90 in my neighborhood as long as they are there when they get the call.

[4248]

Everyone hates them till they need them.


Once again people try to "Divert" the issue - It's not COP BASHING to state the truth about where our tax dollars go .

Everyone knows , that most law enforcement cars exceed posted speed limits . Whether we know why is always the question ?

Last time The Controlling Members of Lancasters Town Board - tried to justify the same type purchase by saying :

- "We save (TAX) money by giving the old cars to other Town Employee's "

Why is that not the case this time ?

Why not purchase smaller less gas guzzeling models -? (Save Tax Dollars)

Why not skip the gigantic graphics and use a Department chrest ? (save tax dollars)

Why not eliminate the " Ilegal (For Lancaster Tax Payers) window tint ? (save Tax Dollars)


Why not try to Save tax dollars by Reducing the Pre-Election Pork Barrel Spending ?
---
--:confused:

[WNYresident]

Why not skip the gigantic graphics and use a Department chrest ? (save tax dollars)



As long as our logo was on the back of the car I would donate the graphics for free if they were simplified to only what is really needed to be known as a police car. I never understood why departments would go over board on graphics anyway.

[colossus27]

The police can do 90 in my neighborhood as long as they are there when they get the call.

Here we go again...:rolleyes:

[Harry Applesack]

Let's see - they ( Lancaster Town Board Members) cried in the Buff News about the Volunteers being "Lacks in controlling expenditures"($200.00) - Then the same Town Board increases their budgets and get new "Luxury Vehicles for the Chiefs ! (Lancaster Tax Dollars)

The Town Board spent a large pile of "Lancaster Payer Money " on the Cole Craft Building - Future Police Station - then we find out all their original published estimates were about 50% short of actual/future Tax Dollars needed to "Rehab/refurbish" this building (recent projections) - even though the building is serving no present purpose - it is costing Lancaster Tax Payers every day - besides utilities - there are Lancaster Employees there practically every day (More tax Dollars)!


Now , we see a small fleet of "New Patrol Cars" being purchased ! As someone pointed out the $110,000.00 tax dollars being spent is not the "End of That Story."

They will need to purchase : Window tint for each car , emergency lights for each car , fancy vinyl graphics for each car , Electronics for each car-including computers and communications equipment .

Of course the work will be done at their favorite "Campaign Contributors" dealership (except the parts of those jobs the dealer farms out) . No competitive bidding - no looking for better deals - just another "Payback" for the "Faithful Party Donors."

My guess the cost of these unexposed extras would be about $3 to 5000.00 per car(Tax Dollars).



--- I have no problems with the men or women who serve as Police or Volunteer Firefighters - Just the ever Tax Inflating/spending habits of the present "Lancaster Controlling Town Board Members" :D



Great job Bullitt. You've forced your way into a discussion on police cars and used it as an avenue to bash the town board. The link between the two topics is pretty weak!
In what way would the purchase of police cars be different if there were different people on the town board? I'd be willing to bet that if you looked back to prior town boards, the purchasing of police cars was done the same way as it is today.

[4248]

Great job Bullitt. You've forced your way into a discussion on police cars and used it as an avenue to bash the town board. The link between the two topics is pretty weak!
In what way would the purchase of police cars be different if there were different people on the town board? I'd be willing to bet that if you looked back to prior town boards, the purchasing of police cars was done the same way as it is today.


I didn't use it - I just stated facts associated with the purchase.

Your correct on at least one point - They have always piled costs onto purchases after the baseline numbers are quoted.

Your correct in saying , " I'd be willing to bet that if you looked back to prior town boards, the purchasing of police cars was done the same way as it is today."- Thats because Supervisor/Town Council Member Bob (The Builder) Giza has made a carreer out of spending "Lancaster Tax Dollars."

You also said,"The link between the two topics is pretty weak!" - Town Board spends tax dollars on Cars - why is that a weak link?


There fore its easy to point out past practice and present expenditures .:p

[colossus27]

Replacing 2-year old cars does seem a bit odd. Knowing nothing about cop cars, I'd be curious to see how often other towns replace them.

However, blaming cops for the way they drive is just nonsense.

http://images.dvdtalk.com/images/smilies/rotflmao.gifhttp://images.dvdtalk.com/images/smilies/rotflmao.gifhttp://images.dvdtalk.com/images/smilies/rotflmao.gifhttp://images.dvdtalk.com/images/smilies/rotflmao.gifhttp://images.dvdtalk.com/images/smilies/rotflmao.gif

These special magical cars are immune from continual WOT starts and near-lockups? Stupid me. I guess I learn something new every day.

Wanna make a bet there's a big top-heavy SUV with similar mileage and LPD markings that isn't seeing the same issues, because some lead-foot simian with a badge is too scared to take corners at 45MPH with it?

If the cops beating the crap out of the cars wasn't the reason, that's speaking pretty loudly about the poor choices being made in vehicles...and now they're buying more of the same, ho ho ho. I'll bet it isn't just the drivetrain- replacement is a cheaper fix on a 2-year old rolling chassis...I'll bet the suspensions are shot too, and unless they're driving WRC stages, they're not blowing those w/'normal' driving....

Sometime on a Sunday morning, take your dog for a walk by the two Howitzers near Como Park. I'll have the coffee ready for you.

[therising]

As long as our logo was on the back of the car I would donate the graphics for free

Can you imagine that? A company logo on the back of every police car?

Then, there'd be threads on this MB, asking who the hell that company is, how they're connected, what types of kickbacks they gave, etc. :D

[WNYresident]

Can you imagine that? A company logo on the back of every police car?

Then, there'd be threads on this MB, asking who the hell that company is, how they're connected, what types of kickbacks they gave, etc. :D


A kick back when done for free?

[My2cents]

http://images.dvdtalk.com/images/smilies/rotflmao.gifhttp://images.dvdtalk.com/images/smilies/rotflmao.gifhttp://images.dvdtalk.com/images/smilies/rotflmao.gifhttp://images.dvdtalk.com/images/smilies/rotflmao.gifhttp://images.dvdtalk.com/images/smilies/rotflmao.gif

These special magical cars are immune from continual WOT starts and near-lockups? Stupid me. I guess I learn something new every day.

Wanna make a bet there's a big top-heavy SUV with similar mileage and LPD markings that isn't seeing the same issues, because some lead-foot simian with a badge is too scared to take corners at 45MPH with it?

If the cops beating the crap out of the cars wasn't the reason, that's speaking pretty loudly about the poor choices being made in vehicles...and now they're buying more of the same, ho ho ho. I'll bet it isn't just the drivetrain- replacement is a cheaper fix on a 2-year old rolling chassis...I'll bet the suspensions are shot too, and unless they're driving WRC stages, they're not blowing those w/'normal' driving....

Sometime on a Sunday morning, take your dog for a walk by the two Howitzers near Como Park. I'll have the coffee ready for you.

I'll bet if you owned a car with 160,000 miles on it you would be a little concerned at having to execute emergency driving manuvers necessary to get these brave souls to the aid of someone who needs it. It would be a shame to read in the paper that your local officer was killed because a bolt sheared off the suspension or a tire broke of while he was trying to get to a taxpayer who did not want to pay for the appropriate equipment to maintain safety in their town. Oh, yeah, then the town would have to settle a multi million dollar lawsuit because of the failure to replace that inadequate worn out unsafe vehicle. You would just blame the cop for that too.

[4248]

I'll bet if you owned a car with 160,000 miles on it you would be a little concerned at having to execute emergency driving manuvers necessary to get these brave souls to the aid of someone who needs it. It would be a shame to read in the paper that your local officer was killed because a bolt sheared off the suspension or a tire broke of while he was trying to get to a taxpayer who did not want to pay for the appropriate equipment to maintain safety in their town. Oh, yeah, then the town would have to settle a multi million dollar lawsuit because of the failure to replace that inadequate worn out unsafe vehicle. You would just blame the cop for that too.

Well once again we hear someone turning this into a good Cop , bad car issue .
No one is saying the Cops don't deserve safe vehicles or that they don't do their jobs.

The issues are pre-election pork barrel spending and using tax dollars as a carrot to hold in front of Volunteers (Voters) , Town Workers (Voters) and Cops (Voters).

There is a clear pattern here - there is a quid pro quo attitude fostered by the Lancaster Town Board played with tax dollars .

Are you stating: the Town Board doesn't provide adequately for repairs to Police Vehicles ?

Are you saying : The Police Administration lets these cars fall into an unsafe condition - due to lack of repairs ?

Are you saying: the level of life and death situations or car chases in Lancaster are so high the cars are just falling apart ?

Are you saying: the COPS need driver training ?

Are you saying: no other more fuel efficient make or model car can do the same job as the Luxury size gas guzzlers we have ?

Anyone can "SPIN" an issue like your trying to do - try and follow the theme - An Administration that uses tax dollars as their own personal tool to secure Campaign Contributions , Favors/paybacks , and Political Alliances instead of to benefit the Resident tax Payers . :D

[colossus27]

I'll bet if you owned a car with 160,000 miles on it you would be a little concerned at having to execute emergency driving manuvers necessary to get these brave souls to the aid of someone who needs it.

I had to use a car w/160K miles on it, I wouldn't be driving it like a Ferrari that somebody else owned unless I needed to drive it that way.


It would be a shame to read in the paper that your local officer was killed because a bolt sheared off the suspension or a tire broke of while he was trying to get to a taxpayer who did not want to pay for the appropriate equipment to maintain safety in their town.

Yeah, it would be, especially since that would mean the maintenance that the taxpayer didn't want to pay for wasn't getting done anyway.

I said it once, I'll say it again- just about every modern car, properly maintained, is very reliable. These cars have the added benefit of never seeing short engine cycles, and a maintenance contract.

So why do some 2-year old cars need to be replaced?

[PaulJonson]

A kick back when done for free?

It doesn't matter if it is done for free, the perception will always far out weigh the reality.

[yaksplat]

The police abuse their vehicles when they don't need to. Why? Because someone else is paying for them. There's an endless supply of money just waiting to pay for new cars if they don't take care of their current ones. The volunteer fire dept is preparing to abuse their firetrucks soon. They're planning a "Firetruck Pull". That sounds like a great way to mess up a transmission, or at least put unnecessary strain on it.

An engine that's running for extended periods will last a lot longer than one that is turned on and off a lot and makes short trips. The amount of thermal stress is reduced from lack of heating and cooling cycles. There should be no reason why police cars can't make it to at least 500,000 miles with only minor repairs.

[My2cents]

You own one maybe two vehicles, right. Depending on the size of the dept. you would have to have 10-100+ officers driving that same vehicle. And you are right that some may abuse a veh they don't own. I say we buy a car for each of them to love and maintain and they can keep it for ten years. Also look into the call volume of your local dept and find out if there is really abuse when they are "just driving around" or if they are going on calls the majority of the time. By the way, engines and tranny's aren't the reason why cars get replaced. suspension, rust, collapsed seats, worn out electricals. The cost to replace these failing parts is not worth keeping them. Also check to see if your town is doing proper preventive maintainence to make sure these vehicles are safe and last (oh, yeah more tax dollars spent by hiring mechanic/garage) it is cheaper by far to replace a vehicle with a new one every year two at most instead of limping it around past 100,000 miles. Sorry it is the truth.

[WNYresident]

I'll bet if you owned a car with 160,000 miles on it you would be a little concerned at having to execute emergency driving manuvers necessary to get these brave souls to the aid of someone who needs it. It would be a shame to read in the paper that your local officer was killed because a bolt sheared off the suspension or a tire broke of while he was trying to get to a taxpayer who did not want to pay for the appropriate equipment to maintain safety in their town. Oh, yeah, then the town would have to settle a multi million dollar lawsuit because of the failure to replace that inadequate worn out unsafe vehicle. You would just blame the cop for that too.

Not if proper maintance was done.

[WNYresident]

So why do some 2-year old cars need to be replaced?

Follow the money. Look at what company tends to get all the sales every year. Pretty profitable if help the people get elected who send you the business

[WNYresident]

The police abuse their vehicles when they don't need to. Why? Because someone else is paying for them. There's an endless supply of money just waiting to pay for new cars if they don't take care of their current ones. The volunteer fire dept is preparing to abuse their firetrucks soon. They're planning a "Firetruck Pull". That sounds like a great way to mess up a transmission, or at least put unnecessary strain on it.

An engine that's running for extended periods will last a lot longer than one that is turned on and off a lot and makes short trips. The amount of thermal stress is reduced from lack of heating and cooling cycles. There should be no reason why police cars can't make it to at least 500,000 miles with only minor repairs.

YOUR making a "Firetruck Pull" up. That would be a very IRRESPONSIBLE thing to do with tax payer paid for vehicles. Stop spreading rumors. People are going to hear that and stop donating funds seeing the volunteers would treat the equipment so carelessly.

[yaksplat]

YOUR making a "Firetruck Pull" up.


Unfortunately it's true. Right off the sign in front of the firehouse on William. It's on the 19th and being held to benefit Special Olympics and paid for by our taxes.

[yaksplat]

Depending on the size of the dept. you would have to have 10-100+ officers driving that same vehicle.


By the way, engines and tranny's aren't the reason why cars get replaced. suspension, rust, collapsed seats, worn out electricals.
Seat = 200
suspension = 1000
Electricals, yeah right. I hate when the copper in my house wears out too. :rolleyes:
rust, not in two years, 10 maybe, but not two

so we're up to $1200 per car


The cost to replace these failing parts is not worth keeping them.
$1200 doesn't sound so bad


Also check to see if your town is doing proper preventive maintainence to make sure these vehicles are safe and last (oh, yeah more tax dollars spent by hiring mechanic/garage) it is cheaper by far to replace a vehicle with a new one every year two at most instead of limping it around past 100,000 miles. Sorry it is the truth.

Wow, you're right, I would much rather spend $25000 than $1200. I'm glad you opened my eyes. If they're really limping around so bad after 100k, maybe they should stop buying that overpriced american junk.

[My2cents]

Follow the money. Look at what company tends to get all the sales every year. Pretty profitable if help the people get elected who send you the business

And what company gets all the sales?

[My2cents]

I don't know where you buy your parts from but you are way low and not counting $100/hr labor. repair cost annually soar after the first year. Alternators go ($400) trannys ($1500) engines ($2500), numerous sensors and electrical switches ($1000 easily), batterys ($100) Brakes ($1000). Most depts in this area farm out repair cost to local garges (connected or not does not matter) to save having to hire mechanics at $40,000 a pop (plus benies=$70,000). Makes sense but they are not performing the PM on these vehicles that would make them last. Same old government philosophy, never a problem until there is a problem. If there were dedicated mechanics on board that went over these cars bumper to bumper every month and replace worn suspensions at 80,000 as recommended by Ford you could make them last safely for 3-4 years. The absolute reality is is that this does not happen. So is the cost savings of not properly maintaining these vehicles canceled out by the high price of purchasing new vehicles every two years (by the way Amherst gets new cars every year). If the towns did rigorous PM to keep these vehicles in service for 4-5 years would it cost the same?

[WNYresident]

And what company gets all the sales?

One of the ford dealers according to another poster

[Effigy]

If there were dedicated mechanics on board that went over these cars bumper to bumper every month and replace worn suspensions at 80,000 as recommended by Ford you could make them last safely for 3-4 years.

Sorry (or congratulations), you just pegged the BS meter on this one. There is NO WAY Ford (or any other auto manufacturer) recommends replacing the vehicle's suspension at ANY mileage, let alone 80,000. Do you even know what a suspension is? It's not just shock absorbers.

- Springs (should last the life of the vehicle)
- Upper and Lower A arms (ditto)
- Bushings (ditto)
- Ball joints (maybe once every 100,000 miles, unless they drive Audis)
- Steering Knuckles (lifetime)
- Sway Bars (lifetime)

Do you even know what Ford includes in their Crown Vic Police package?

Heavy duty everything, even the seats. Radiator, Alternator, Battery, Transmission cooler, Shocks, Springs, Bushings, Starter, Tires, Brakes, you name it. If an average citizen were to buy a car equipped like this, it would easily last for 500,000 miles, as long as rust didn't kill it.

The Police are trained NOT TO CARE for the well being of their vehicles. That's how they catch the "bad guys". They will drive over a curb or through a field doing 60mph to make an arrest. They can't afford to worry about potential damage when the chase is on.

[Stormbringer 88]

I had to use a car w/160K miles on it, I wouldn't be driving it like a Ferrari that somebody else owned unless I needed to drive it that way.

I said it once, I'll say it again- just about every modern car, properly maintained, is very reliable. These cars have the added benefit of never seeing short engine cycles, and a maintenance contract.

So why do some 2-year old cars need to be replaced?

OK, genius. Why don't you compare the miles the local PD gets out of their cars to OTHER POLICE AGENCIES across the state or country and NOT your own (or anybody else's, for that matter) personal driving habits. It's comparing apples to oranges. Would you say that the maintenance and tire wear on a NASCAR car is excessive also, because YOU don't have to do that type of maintenance on YOUR vehicle every week??

When is the last time you responded in your personal vehicle at high speeds to a robbery alarm or a bad car accident or a bar fight? You know, the type of incidents where response time is of the essence because people could get seriously hurt or killed or perhaps die from their injuries. Maybe the cops going to these calls should slow down and go the speed limit so as not to put any excess stress or wear and tear on their taxpayer-funded patrol cars. :rolleyes:

I wonder if you still feel the same way if the emergency was at your house or involving your family? Maybe then you'd have some use for the "lead-footed simians" (your words). Until then, it's pretty obvious from your previous posts that you have a hard on for the local cops, or all cops in general, and that you're just out to bash them. Pretty pathetic, IMO.

[My2cents]

Sorry (or congratulations), you just pegged the BS meter on this one. There is NO WAY Ford (or any other auto manufacturer) recommends replacing the vehicle's suspension at ANY mileage, let alone 80,000. Do you even know what a suspension is? It's not just shock absorbers.

- Springs (should last the life of the vehicle)
- Upper and Lower A arms (ditto)
- Bushings (ditto)
- Ball joints (maybe once every 100,000 miles, unless they drive Audis)
- Steering Knuckles (lifetime)
- Sway Bars (lifetime)

Do you even know what Ford includes in their Crown Vic Police package?

Heavy duty everything, even the seats. Radiator, Alternator, Battery, Transmission cooler, Shocks, Springs, Bushings, Starter, Tires, Brakes, you name it. If an average citizen were to buy a car equipped like this, it would easily last for 500,000 miles, as long as rust didn't kill it.

The Police are trained NOT TO CARE for the well being of their vehicles. That's how they catch the "bad guys". They will drive over a curb or through a field doing 60mph to make an arrest. They can't afford to worry about potential damage when the chase is on.

Ford does have a suspension maintainence/replacement overhaul schedule for police duty (regardless of heavy duty). sway bars and springs may not need replacement but everything else should be replaced.

[My2cents]

Do you even know what Ford includes in their Crown Vic Police package?

Believe I may have a better idea than you


Heavy duty everything, even the seats. Radiator, Alternator, Battery, Transmission cooler, Shocks, Springs, Bushings, Starter, Tires, Brakes, you name it. If an average citizen were to buy a car equipped like this, it would easily last for 500,000 miles, as long as rust didn't kill it.

Only thing here that I can see lasting under these conditions may be the springs.


The Police are trained NOT TO CARE for the well being of their vehicles. That's how they catch the "bad guys". They will drive over a curb or through a field doing 60mph to make an arrest. They can't afford to worry about potential damage when the chase is on.

Explain how they are trained not to care. I think they would have to worry about damage as the vehicle has to make it there with them in it.

[colossus27]

OK, genius. Why don't you compare the miles the local PD gets out of their cars to OTHER POLICE AGENCIES across the state or country and NOT your own (or anybody else's, for that matter) personal driving habits. It's comparing apples to oranges. Would you say that the maintenance and tire wear on a NASCAR car is excessive also, because YOU don't have to do that type of maintenance on YOUR vehicle every week??

Here's what we'll do. You go ahead and FOIL the data for Lancaster. Ask them about the mileage in their PD's SUVs too. I'll do the same for Amherst. Scan what the PD mails you, I'll do the same, and we'll post it here. If I'm wrong, I'll shut my mouth. Fair enough?


When is the last time you responded in your personal vehicle at high speeds to a robbery alarm or a bad car accident or a bar fight? You know, the type of incidents where response time is of the essence because people could get seriously hurt or killed or perhaps die from their injuries. Maybe the cops going to these calls should slow down and go the speed limit so as not to put any excess stress or wear and tear on their taxpayer-funded patrol cars. :rolleyes:

You mean they need to obey a speed limit unless responding to a justified incident? Do you have any idea how naive you sound? What's next? Telling me they're safe drivers because they never get tickets? :rolleyes:

When there's a need for "high speeds to a robbery alarm or a bad car accident or a bar fight?" at 9AM on a Sunday I'll consider apologist excuses like this. Just because cops have a rough job doesn't excuse them from crap like this, especially since it's extremely hypocrtical to ticket people for doing the exact same thing. For the hard-of-thinking, this doesn't mean I condone this sort of behavior from anybody.


I wonder if you still feel the same way if the emergency was at your house or involving your family? Maybe then you'd have some use for the "lead-footed simians" (your words). Until then, it's pretty obvious from your previous posts that you have a hard on for the local cops, or all cops in general, and that you're just out to bash them. Pretty pathetic, IMO.

The next time there's another emergency, they're still not going to come here w/locked up tyres and buzzing engines.

Last October (I think- it was before the storm), there were about ten cars broken into in my neighborhood. I took my pup out for a whiz around 6AM, and found a CD carrier w/about 20 CDs in it on my neighbor's lawn. It wasn't mine. I also found dewy footprints around my car, my wife's car, and our neighbor's cars. I called the PD at 6:12AM to have them pick up the CDs and tell them what I'd seen.

Despite maybe 5 cars buzzing around the neighborhood, none were doing WOT starts or hard cornering. The cops showed up 42 minutes later- I was late for work.

Since 10-odd cars getting broken into doesn't justify it in cop's minds, what exactly happens in Lancaster to justify this sort of driving?

[therising]

One of the ford dealers according to another poster

And one of the Chevy dealers according to another poster.

So, I suppose they're all corrupt. :rolleyes: :)

[Harry Applesack]

The next time there's another emergency, they're still not going to come here w/locked up tyres and buzzing engines.

Last October (I think- it was before the storm), there were about ten cars broken into in my neighborhood. I took my pup out for a whiz around 6AM, and found a CD carrier w/about 20 CDs in it on my neighbor's lawn. It wasn't mine. I also found dewy footprints around my car, my wife's car, and our neighbor's cars. I called the PD at 6:12AM to have them pick up the CDs and tell them what I'd seen.

Despite maybe 5 cars buzzing around the neighborhood, none were doing WOT starts or hard cornering. The cops showed up 42 minutes later- I was late for work.

Since 10-odd cars getting broken into doesn't justify it in cop's minds, what exactly happens in Lancaster to justify this sort of driving?



That's your emergency? Finding property laying around? Wow!! I'd hate to see the panic you endure when you stub your toe!!

Stormbringer was right. You clearly have a hard-on for the cops. It's been a theme with no variation since October. What happened? Did you get a ticket for something that you're certain you did not do? Did you have a crime against you not get solved? Maybe you got caught experimenting with a glory hole in Como Park. Who knows. Your whining is very transparent and is getting pretty old!!

Throughout the 3 pages of comments on this issue, there is one point everyone seems to miss. That soon there will be 6 new police cars. And in two years, there will be six more and so on and so on. It doesn't matter who is in town hall or on the board. It's a cost of doing business and it's probably budgeted for each year. Keeping police cars for an extra year or two is NOT going to lower your taxes for police protection. The same goes for replacing highway and rec dept. vehicle and equipment. It's just a cost of doing business. Look at your itemized tax bill. You'd probably be surprised at where your money is going.

I'm most shocked that people are complaining about police car expenditures when the town board just approved the spending of $985,000 to renovate a garage for more office space that may or may not be able to house the building department. Especialy when they spent over a million bucks for a giant warehouse building on Walden ave that has sat nearly vacant for three years, yet are probably spending a good buck on heating and electric. IMO that's quite a slap in the face to the taxpayers.

[My2cents]

Last October (I think- it was before the storm), there were about ten cars broken into in my neighborhood. I took my pup out for a whiz around 6AM, and found a CD carrier w/about 20 CDs in it on my neighbor's lawn. It wasn't mine. I also found dewy footprints around my car, my wife's car, and our neighbor's cars. I called the PD at 6:12AM to have them pick up the CDs and tell them what I'd seen.

Despite maybe 5 cars buzzing around the neighborhood, none were doing WOT starts or hard cornering. The cops showed up 42 minutes later- I was late for work.

Since 10-odd cars getting broken into doesn't justify it in cop's minds, what exactly happens in Lancaster to justify this sort of driving?

I'm sorry that you would classify that incident as an emergency. Most people don't have encounters with police unless it is a quality of life issue like this. I guess the old saying you hear about the police dealing with "the worst 10% of the population 100% of the time" would be lost on you as you do not deal with the same people. I'm sure if you had heard glass break and saw someone near your car when this had occurred you would have got a faster response to this crime in progress. Your situation had occurred hours before and was simply an investigating of a reported crime.

[My2cents]

And one of the Chevy dealers according to another poster.

So, I suppose they're all corrupt. :rolleyes: :)

Believe they are mostly Ford with a few Dodges emerging. Name the dealership please.

[therising]

Believe they are mostly Ford with a few Dodges emerging. Name the dealership please.

You may have noticed that I had the sarcasm :rolleyes: smilie going. I am not claiming they're corrupt - others have.

[colossus27]

I'm sorry that you would classify that incident as an emergency. Most people don't have encounters with police unless it is a quality of life issue like this. I guess the old saying you hear about the police dealing with "the worst 10% of the population 100% of the time" would be lost on you as you do not deal with the same people. I'm sure if you had heard glass break and saw someone near your car when this had occurred you would have got a faster response to this crime in progress. Your situation had occurred hours before and was simply an investigating of a reported crime.

I'm sorry. Where did I say it was an emergency? You know, like speeding around town on Sunday mornings justifies? On and on with the tangents, hmm? Make a few more foregone conclusions about me- no really, it adds so much weight to what you're saying.

Still don't change the fact that cops in Lancaster pound the crap out of their cars, does it?

[colossus27]

Stormbringer was right. You clearly have a hard-on for the cops. It's been a theme with no variation since October. What happened? Did you get a ticket for something that you're certain you did not do? Did you have a crime against you not get solved? Maybe you got caught experimenting with a glory hole in Como Park. Who knows. Your whining is very transparent and is getting pretty old!!

I guess the 'ignore' option hasn't gotten much consideration from you.

Then again, given the shallow frat-boy inferences you've made here, I'll wager there's very little in the way of consideration going on in that 'brain' of yours.

[My2cents]

I'm sorry. Where did I say it was an emergency? You know, like speeding around town on Sunday mornings justifies? On and on with the tangents, hmm? Make a few more foregone conclusions about me- no really, it adds so much weight to what you're saying.

Still don't change the fact that cops in Lancaster pound the crap out of their cars, does it?


Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were disappointed because you did not receive the special attention you deserved for your problem. And I also forgot that there are no life threatening situations that occur on Sunday morning. Maybe a complete understanding of exactly what the police do would better serve to educate you, but seeing as you are a cop hater then there is no need. Until then pull your head out and pray you never need the services of the police in a life threatening situation. Maybe some therapy would be in order here.

[Stormbringer 88]

I'm sorry. Where did I say it was an emergency? You know, like speeding around town on Sunday mornings justifies?



So what are you saying - that because it's a Sunday morning, no crimes or emergencies occur?
Wasn't there a shooting/homicide involving biker gangs at the Speedway in Lancaster on a Sunday morning a few years back? God knows we wouldn't want the local "simians" speeding around town to that or pounding the crap out of their cars to get to that call... :rolleyes:
Do you honestly think that no crimes or emergencies occur in Lancaster, or that they happen on some kind of set schedule? I have to agree with my2cents, maybe you just don't see or deal with the people who are causing problems/committing crimes in your community. We sure don't live in Mayberry.

[Harry Applesack]

I guess the 'ignore' option hasn't gotten much consideration from you.

Then again, given the shallow frat-boy inferences you've made here, I'll wager there's very little in the way of consideration going on in that 'brain' of yours.


I've considered ignoring you, but after awhile I feel compelled to bring some much needed attention to your ignorance.

[4248]

Its easy to follow the trail of Lancaster's tax dollars - Its how Lancaster's "Politicians" use tax dollars to reward supporters - Thats whats corrupt ! :mad:

Quote=WNYresident]One poster said Ford:


QUOTE=theorising]And one of the Chevy dealers according to another poster.

So, I suppose they're all corrupt. :rolleyes: :)[/QUOTE]

Just try this link to see just how many cars Bob's Buddie and Terry's life long friend can provide : Plus services like Electronic installations , Graphics - window tinting , and when asked about these services - They (Basil) admitted these are larger profit margin services , because they don't use their guys or tie up their dealership - they farm out (sell) the work and pocket a nice profit for simply writing the work order :
http://www.basilcars.com/;)

[My2cents]

Basil gets Lancaster bids? Usually it's Delacy who gets the bulk of area bids. Tou would think West Herr would get them as they are the largest volume dealer. Of course this is a low bid process so you must be implying that the fix is in on the bids.

[4248]

Basil gets Lancaster bids? Usually it's Delacy who gets the bulk of area bids. Tou would think West Herr would get them as they are the largest volume dealer. Of course this is a low bid process so you must be implying that the fix is in on the bids.

Are you saying "They put it out for competitive bidding?" :confused: (I am not saying your trying to mislead anyone.)

I am stating - the profit is in the "Added" equipment and Graphics - not shown in the cost estimates recently exposed to the Buff News . If West Herr submitted a bid or anyone else please verify that fact and let us know where the copies of these bids are. They were not presented to the news or at the Town Board Meeting !


I forgot about Delacy - I was wondering if anyone read my other posts - :confused:


They all are Saint Mary's Alumni and life long friends. You can easily find their names on the walls of the school or at the Board of Elections by reading the Campaign Donors list for the Lancaster Democratic Committee.

[My2cents]

Municipalities have to put items over a certain amount (I think it is $10,000) out for competitive bid. You can check the minutes, FOIL if you have to. Sure there is profit in the add ons and labor.

[therising]

Just try this link to see just how many cars Bob's Buddie and Terry's life long friend can provide : Plus services like Electronic installations , Graphics - window tinting , and when asked about these services - They (Basil) admitted these are larger profit margin services , because they don't use their guys or tie up their dealership - they farm out (sell) the work and pocket a nice profit for simply writing the work order :
http://www.basilcars.com/;)

Bullitt: It wasn't so long ago that you said Mr. Giza and Mr. Delacy have been "tight for years".

What's next? Mr. Baldo? The West Herr family?

Who else do you feel like slamming? :)

[Harry Applesack]

Just try this link to see just how many cars Bob's Buddie and Terry's life long friend can provide : Plus services like Electronic installations , Graphics - window tinting , and when asked about these services - They (Basil) admitted these are larger profit margin services , because they don't use their guys or tie up their dealership - they farm out (sell) the work and pocket a nice profit for simply writing the work order :
http://www.basilcars.com/;)


Aren't the police cars Fords? Since when did Basil start selling Ford?

[JustRetired]

Aren't the police cars Fords? Since when did Basil start selling Ford?

Basil Ford is on Walden near Harlem in Cheektowaga.

[4248]

Aren't the police cars Fords? Since when did Basil start selling Ford?

I posted the link - use the mouse - point & click - you can manage that - can't you?:D

[4248]

Municipalities have to put items over a certain amount (I think it is $10,000) out for competitive bid. You can check the minutes, FOIL if you have to. Sure there is profit in the add ons and labor.

Thats where (add ons) the "Cookies" get passed .


Your the one saying they put these purchases out for bids - you foil it or read the minutes .

Theres also a rule that says the Supervisor should not have bought his vehicle without bid or Town Board Meeting vote and approval - did that stop him - NO!

Do your own home work before you try to defend an issue . Believe then verify - before you assume your being told the truth . With Bob the Builder Giza and friends 1/2 truths are good enough .:eek:

[Harry Applesack]

Do your own home work before you try to defend an issue . Believe then verify - before you assume your being told the truth . :eek:


Thats great advice from someone who's dealing 100% B.S. !!!

[My2cents]

Thats where (add ons) the "Cookies" get passed .


Your the one saying they put these purchases out for bids - you foil it or read the minutes .

Theres also a rule that says the Supervisor should not have bought his vehicle without bid or Town Board Meeting vote and approval - did that stop him - NO!

Do your own home work before you try to defend an issue . Believe then verify - before you assume your being told the truth . With Bob the Builder Giza and friends 1/2 truths are good enough .:eek:

Not my problem to deal with as I don't live in Lancaster. Just giving advice as to how municipal bidding process is supposed to work by law. Sorry if you are offended by this.

[Harry Applesack]

Not my problem to deal with as I don't live in Lancaster. Just giving advice as to how municipal bidding process is supposed to work by law. Sorry if you are offended by this.


I don' think he's offended, just off his medication.

[colossus27]

So what are you saying - that because it's a Sunday morning, no crimes or emergencies occur?
Wasn't there a shooting/homicide involving biker gangs at the Speedway in Lancaster on a Sunday morning a few years back? God knows we wouldn't want the local "simians" speeding around town to that or pounding the crap out of their cars to get to that call... :rolleyes:
Do you honestly think that no crimes or emergencies occur in Lancaster, or that they happen on some kind of set schedule? I have to agree with my2cents, maybe you just don't see or deal with the people who are causing problems/committing crimes in your community. We sure don't live in Mayberry.

This is a shallow justification, and you knew it even before you posted it. Some guy got shot at LMS 'a few years back' so that justifies speeding last weekend? Please.

And another thing- if there's a real justification for turning my neighborhood into a rally superspecial, can't they at least turn their damn lights on? It might help the people pushing strollers around in my neighborhood, and it'd lend credibility to your comments.

Any interest in FOILing the mileage-data from LPD?

[4248]

Not my problem to deal with as I don't live in Lancaster. Just giving advice as to how municipal bidding process is supposed to work by law. Sorry if you are offended by this.

Mr.2cents

I was not "Offended" - but it seemed you believed Lancaster Town Government follows the law . It seemed you were saying they had put these purchases up for bid ! You did bring out (honestly) that you don't live here and you felt you were offering advice (Thanks) - some posters on this site pretend to live every where and try to bash everyone who doesn't agree with them - Thanks for not being one of them .


Well , they didn't follow the guidelines and they usually don't - the Lancaster Town Government can state how its supposed to work - but it has never been done exactly that way .

The Lancaster Town Government may use parts of the systems/laws once in a while - like in order to reap the tax payer funded "October Storm" reparations money - but the FEMA guys caught them and stopped it . You see the Lancaster Town Government can't deal with any kind of outside Governmental regulatory over-site .

My point is and always has been - saving Tax Dollars - Eliminating Patron-ism - Eliminating Nepotism - Removing the Developer controlled system we now have .

I support no one Party nor am I a member of any Group that favors any Political Party . I was a Democrat for most of my life - until I moved to Lancaster and saw how our Local Party was almost entirely made up of "self serving Career seeking friends and family members." In a sense I understand what happened - this Town was small and nobody payed much attention to the Political games here . It was easy to control and some families took that and ran with it . Thats how the Giza's , Keysa's and Friends came to power .

They learned early - those who control the rules can make the rules work for them .
Their rules start with "Two sets" - 1) ours and 2) theirs .

When the Courts (Pensions-jobs) , Law Enforcement (Pensions-jobs) , Town Services (Pensions-jobs) , Parks & Recreation Departments (Pensions-jobs) , Highway Department (Pensions-jobs) , Boys & Girls Club (Health Care & Jobs) , The Town Government (Pensions-Jobs-Appointments/Elected) and the Local Democratic Committee are Controlled by a small group of Family and friends - Real Estate Lawyers and " Career Bureaucrats " they can make things happen any way they please .

I can only hope that the " New Residents " have a better sense of True Government and sooner or later enough of them can squash the "Self Serving Insiders Nest" we now have running Lancaster .:D

-
-

[4248]

This is a shallow justification, and you knew it even before you posted it. Some guy got shot at LMS 'a few years back' so that justifies speeding last weekend? Please.

And another thing- if there's a real justification for turning my neighborhood into a rally superspecial, can't they at least turn their damn lights on? It might help the people pushing strollers around in my neighborhood, and it'd lend credibility to your comments.

Any interest in Foiling the mileage-data from LPD?

Mr.Rainmaker will use almost any obscure example to defend Town Workers .

The incident at the speedway was over tens years or more ago . Two rival biker gangs met and one was shot . Thats truly not the reason this thread was started - was it ?

Good luck with a "Foil Request" for LPD Mileage data . There is computer data on "Gas and Mileage" gathered by the fuel station on Pleasant-view - at the Lancaster High School bus garage . The Data collected was supposed to be "Regularly Reviewed" by the Lancaster Town Board in order to track usage and other data . Nobody has ever presented this info at a Lancaster Town Board Meeting . Nobody has ever presented this data for public viewing or entered it into the minutes at a Public Town Board Meeting(as promised).

The only time this system has been mentioned is when Bob(The Builder)Giza says: "We save money by having a gas consortium" or when he was selling the system to the taxpayers he said : "It is well worth the money(your Tax dollars) because we can keep track of the savings."

I dare you to "Foil Request" the amounts used for every Town Owned vehicle and every vehicle that uses that pump . Ask for "License Plate numbers" and vehicle descriptions associated with usage - including - Fire Chiefs - Town Employees - and a total usage tracking . Try and average the gallons purchased yearly to the permissible users list - you CANT!

Unless some vehicles are averaging 1 mile to the gallon - it wont even come close to an accountable balance -

another insider PERK - FREE GAS !:eek:

[Harry Applesack]

This is a shallow justification, and you knew it even before you posted it. Some guy got shot at LMS 'a few years back' so that justifies speeding last weekend? Please.

And another thing- if there's a real justification for turning my neighborhood into a rally superspecial, can't they at least turn their damn lights on? It might help the people pushing strollers around in my neighborhood, and it'd lend credibility to your comments.

Any interest in FOILing the mileage-data from LPD?



Just a few questions about your observations.

1.) How often does this happen in your neighborhood or in other areas of the town that you have direct knowledge of? When I say direct knowledge, I am referring to you seeing it with your own eyes.

2.) How fast were the police cars going?

3.) How many times have you called the police department to complain? I would expect that their is a supervisor around who you can speak to(even anonymously).

[Harry Applesack]

Mr.2cents

I was not "Offended" - but it seemed you believed Lancaster Town Government follows the law .
They learned early - those who control the rules can make the rules work for them .
Their rules start with "Two sets" - 1) ours and 2) theirs .


-
-


Interesting thought Bullitt. Have you been a law abiding citizen? Have you ever tried to make the "rules" work for you?

[4248]

Just a few questions about your observations.

1.) How often does this happen in your neighborhood or in other areas of the town that you have direct knowledge of? When I say direct knowledge, I am referring to you seeing it with your own eyes.

2.) How fast were the police cars going?

3.) How many times have you called the police department to complain? I would expect that their is a supervisor around who you can speak to(even anonymously).

Yes - do call one of the fellows at the Boys Club to Complain----"anonymously"

Is this guy for real ? Make sure your insurance is up to date on all your cars - check your inspection stickers and when you get hauled into traffic court - ask for your case to be moved to Buffalo and make sure your lawyer has no connections to Lancaster - OOOOH! HAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!HEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-HEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!:) :) :) :) :)

[colossus27]

Just a few questions about your observations.

1.) How often does this happen in your neighborhood or in other areas of the town that you have direct knowledge of? When I say direct knowledge, I am referring to you seeing it with your own eyes.

Typically about 2X a month- I usually end up seeing this on Sundays, around 9AM, while my pup is peeing on my lawn.


2.) How fast were the police cars going?

Estimates are difficult- I know police are trained to do this and I'm not. I'd eyeball it around 35-40MPH, after two blocks wide-open-throttle.


3.) How many times have you called the police department to complain? I would expect that their is a supervisor around who you can speak to(even anonymously).

Not yet- but before anybody gets postal about this, I've a next-door neighbor with a very shallow understanding of noise ordinances and if I present myself as a cranky taxpayer, I can expect even less in the way of support when that is a problem again. Is it even possible to anonymously call a police department?

[4248]

Interesting thought Bullitt. Have you been a law abiding citizen? Have you ever tried to make the "rules" work for you?


I will print my records when and if you agree to verify yours and submit same .

I believe in the American System - I served and still serve my Country .

I don't agree with the two rule system or right of privilege . While i am not a good/polished speaker or writer - I do and will speak my mind and state facts and opinions . I am not sword fighting with you or others - I just like openness and fair play .

Your avatar speaks volumes about your sense of morality and what you stand for.:p

[Harry Applesack]

I will print my records when and if you agree to verify yours and submit same .

I believe in the American System - I served and still serve my Country .

I don't agree with the two rule system or right of privilege . While i am not a good/polished speaker or writer - I do and will speak my mind and state facts and opinions . I am not sword fighting with you or others - I just like openness and fair play .

Your avatar speaks volumes about your sense of morality and what you stand for.:p



A simple "No" would have sufficed!! But, just as I have suspected. In the future you might consider looking inthe mirror before you spout your thoughts on lawfulness and morality.

[4248]

A simple "No" would have sufficed!! But, just as I have suspected. In the future you might consider looking inthe mirror before you spout your thoughts on lawfulness and morality.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

A simple no was what you wanted so you could twist it. I again agree to expose my past and present records if you do the same.

I look in my mirror everyday - I like who I see.

You brought up the "Laws and Morality" issues. I answered - you evaded as usual.


Have a good:) day!



-
-

[Harry Applesack]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

A simple no was what you wanted so you could twist it. I again agree to expose my past and present records if you do the same.

I look in my mirror everyday - I like who I see.

You brought up the "Laws and Morality" issues. I answered - you evaded as usual.


Have a good:) day!
-

I didn't evade. I'd be happy to show you my criminal record. There's nothing there, which is more that can be said about yours!! (double dipping not included).

You're the one who brought up morality and lawful conduct by our town board. I simply stated that before you cast those stones, you might consider a bit of personal reflection.
-
-[/QUOTE]

[gshowell]

I didn't evade. I'd be happy to show you my criminal record. There's nothing there, which is more that can be said about yours!! (double dipping not included). [/QUOTE]


Are you saying Bullitt has a criminal record?

Do you know this for a fact?

Can you prove it?

Or is this just hyperbole?

It's amazing that people who don't know who each other really is can make allegations about others, based on......nothing.

[pudge]

Hey Applesack:

This following quote made by you back on May 12th seems to have gone by the wayside. I can't believe no one picked up on it and ran with it. Talk about heavy duty waste of money.

Add the two expenditures together and examine bang for the buck and you approach zilch!

Applesack
I'm most shocked that people are complaining about police car expenditures when the town board just approved the spending of $985,000 to renovate a garage for more office space that may or may not be able to house the building department. Especialy when they spent over a million bucks for a giant warehouse building on Walden ave that has sat nearly vacant for three years, yet are probably spending a good buck on heating and electric. IMO that's quite a slap in the face to the taxpayers.

[4248]

I didn't evade. I'd be happy to show you my criminal record. There's nothing there, which is more that can be said about yours!! (double dipping not included).

You're the one who brought up morality and lawful conduct by our town board. I simply stated that before you cast those stones, you might consider a bit of personal reflection.
-
-[/QUOTE]

First I said , "I would post my records if you follow suit and verify identity."

Unlike you , I didn't attack you personally - unless your one of those insiders who have or are now benefiting from the " Lack of Morals , insider deals or improper use of the Laws " I mentioned .


You assume for some reason , probably because you have been mislead or are one of those who mislead others - that you might know me .

So ,it would follow that because you have no valid issues or input , that you will embark on a "Innuendo - Misinformation character assassination attempt."

If your man enough - put your "True Name" to what you supposedly know about who you insinuate I might be . Then there will be at-least two people suing you when your proved wrong .

I can prove every "Issue" I raised and will gladly join you or anyone I mentioned in a Open Court of Law -

I will gladly meet you and or anyone who wishes to test my posts in Open Court - are you sure enough of your self and what you "Have Heard" about some one , that your willing to do it in a open Court House -

I Am , I have and never lost . (If you know me - you know thats fact.)

This is no threat - this is a challenge - I challenge you as a "Honest Man" to either contact me personally with a time and date to meet. Or stick to relevant facts instead of trying to "Insinuate" I do what "Your Friends are Doing"

I fully expect you and your nameless friends will not rise to the challenge - I will not debate my personal life on this or any site with "Shadow Puppets."

Regardless of your efforts - or anyone Else's - I have and will stand behind my issues , opinions and rights to express and present factually related situations , I can personally back up .

Its is time tax payers are represented by those they elect . Our system has been hijacked by Self Serving Bureaucrats - who cater to the needs of the "Privileged" few. People like you set out to stifle others through intimidation , misinformation , perception based reality(You help create) .

You can only accomplish one thing - you can affect the opinions of the easily lead on this site . - You cannot change reality - You cannot lie your friends way into honesty - Borrowing rumors will never create truth - THE TRUTH IS BORN FROM TRUTH , A LIE IS JUST THAT!

I must be getting under the skin of the "Status Quo Crowd" or those afflicted with the " Political Denial Syndrome " otherwise you wouldn't be preparing to insult a person you know nothing about personally .:confused:

[Harry Applesack]

First I said , "I would post my records if you follow suit and verify identity."


I would be happy to post my identity and criminal record after you post yours.

Unlike you , I didn't attack you personally - unless your one of those insiders who have or are now benefiting from the " Lack of Morals , insider deals or improper use of the Laws " I mentioned .

You are speculating about insider deals and improper use of the laws. For months you have been posting these allegations with no proof of same.

You assume for some reason , probably because you have been mislead or are one of those who mislead others - that you might know me .

I'm not mislead, nor have I mislead others. I probably do know you!!

If your man enough - put your "True Name" to what you supposedly know about who you insinuate I might be . Then there will be at-least two people suing you when your proved wrong .

I can prove every "Issue" I raised and will gladly join you or anyone I mentioned in a Open Court of Law -

I will gladly meet you and or anyone who wishes to test my posts in Open Court - are you sure enough of your self and what you "Have Heard" about some one , that your willing to do it in a open Court House -

I Am , I have and never lost . (If you know me - you know thats fact.)

Wow. For a guy who just wants to "raise issues" and "provoke conversation" you're getting a little touchy. Law suit? Hasn't most of your courtroom experience been as a defendant?

This is no threat - this is a challenge - I challenge you as a "Honest Man" to either contact me personally with a time and date to meet. Or stick to relevant facts instead of trying to "Insinuate" I do what "Your Friends are Doing"

I fully expect you and your nameless friends will not rise to the challenge - I will not debate my personal life on this or any site with "Shadow Puppets."

First you said you would post your record. Now you're saying that you won't debate your personal life on this or any site. Well, which is it? I'd love to meet you in person, but what would be the purpose of us meeting?

Regardless of your efforts - or anyone Else's - I have and will stand behind my issues , opinions and rights to express and present factually related situations , I can personally back up .

Its is time tax payers are represented by those they elect . Our system has been hijacked by Self Serving Bureaucrats - who cater to the needs of the "Privileged" few. People like you set out to stifle others through intimidation , misinformation , perception based reality(You help create) .

You can only accomplish one thing - you can affect the opinions of the easily lead on this site . - You cannot change reality - You cannot lie your friends way into honesty - Borrowing rumors will never create truth - THE TRUTH IS BORN FROM TRUTH , A LIE IS JUST THAT!

I must be getting under the skin of the "Status Quo Crowd" or those afflicted with the " Political Denial Syndrome " otherwise you wouldn't be preparing to insult a person you know nothing about personally [/QUOTE]

OK. Let's review some of your posts where you insulted a person you know nothing about personally.

1.) 6 hour shift for one of lancasters finest-

"Why should this senior officer have to do street work like the other guys or even work a full shift for that matter ? Just the sight of that patrol car sitting there - day after day - probably scares the bad guys away !

Well , i guess he just doesn't want to retire yet - so the school gets a chance to use all his years as a street cop to help teach our young ones right from wrong . It's probably safer for him and the other officers this way too"

2.) Lancaster Town Attorney R.Sherwood for Supervisor-

"We could save time , because Supervisor Giza wouldn't have to waste time asking Sherwood what to do . He doesn't seem to be able to decide for himself ! Sherwood would save time and money running from the back door of 21 Central to the back door of 25 Central (Plus then his shoes wouldn't be so dirty)"

3.) Stanley J. Keysa , no conflict of interest here-

"I guess one could say , Stanley just cant keep his hands off other peoples money . Tax payer funded pensions , realestate deals , passing every subdivision and commercial deal he can , buying and selling land , leading the way in screwing Erie County's Union workers , and making sure its all legal !"

4.) Latello may replace Lancasters Parks/recreation Chief-

"If Terry doesn't run for Political Office and win - his job title may be that of a "LABORER." This would leave a opening that Mr.Latello would have no trouble securing/filling - lets face it , he needs the "Benefits" not necessarily the paycheck ! While J.C. sits and stirs the pot on all fronts - My bet is Terry will wake up and see he needs to "Pull in the horns" and slide a big chunk (Campaign Funds) of Party Loyalty to the Old Boys and be glad he has made it this far !"

How's that for an "Innuendo - Misinformation character assassination attempt.?"


Anyone who reads your posts can clearly see that your motivation is to grind an axe with Bob Giza and the current administration. The only truthful thing you have said in months was "i am not a good/polished speaker or writer." Everything else is nothing more than vicious, spiteful rhetoric aimed at an administration that embarrased the crap out of you a few years ago!!

Did your counselor recommend using this board as a method of anger management?

[therising]

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[4248]

[QUOTE=Bullitt4248] First I said , "I would post my records if you follow suit and verify identity."


[quote=happysack]I would be happy to post my identity and criminal record after you post yours . You have Changed your reply - now you add after ! You also try to make my quote above - seem like you issued the challenge - Cheap!

[quote=bullitt4248]Unlike you , I didn't attack you personally - unless your one of those insiders who have or are now benefiting from the " Lack of Morals , insider deals or improper use of the Laws " I mentioned .[end quote]

[quote=happysack]You are speculating about insider deals and improper use of the laws. For months you have been posting these allegations with no proof of same. [end quote]
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First, your postings and comments only show you and you friend (you know the tan one) Theorizing - are just more fine examples of the sick self serving bunch that infest Lancaster/DEPEW.

I have defended my actions and I will stand behind every statement I make about Joe Coppola , Russel Luke , Lancaster's Supervisor , Lancaster's Town Board , Town Attorney Sherwood , Terry McCracken and the Officer who has that cake Job at the High School or anyone else I mention abusing tax payers trust and dollars .

All the insider deals/paybacks I refer to are documented in the expenditures of Lancaster's Government or Board of Elections records of Campaign contributions . You can also look up the cost of servicing our Police cars at the car dealer . If these were not true you and your friends who think you know who I am - would try and sue me . You will get no where - try to discredit me - you have no facts to disprove my statements .


I have only reported to the public - you cant alter facts with all your false postings . Ask your buddies if as you continue your game - would they mind if I reciprocate with their family histories - you seem to want to make this personal instead of factual . Check with them - then lets walk that walk - In the end my life wont change much - theirs will and maybe they will thank you Mr.Happysack for all the free publicity .


I have allot more facts , do you have any ?

I do have an ax to grind with self serving individuals that think they can step on anyone they want - You sit in your computer room for hours , I enjoy the fresh air . Excluding me has set me free , the only embarrassment I have suffered is in the minds of you and those you mislead . As the case with GS Howell and many other residents - time is on my side . How about you ?;)

[4248]

SUWNY Readers,

I apologize to SUWNY readers for letting another poster pull me into a personal debate on this site .

I do have an ax to grind - I believe every Taxpayer does or should .

I will try to stay on topic and avoid personal issues . Politicians and Special interests use of our Governmental system and Tax Dollars has just got to change .

If we move , we lose - If we complain , were branded - If we try to get "Inside" Politics to affect changes , we get bulldozed - When they control/influence the Media , how can you educate others - If they can use "Your" tax dollars to hire Lawyers to stifle you - how can you prevail in the Courts ? ? ?



How can we change this Co-Opted System we have allowed to flourish ?