4 WNY private schools top $10K in tuition

[steven]

The tuition figures:



Gow School (East Aurora), $51,075
Nichols School (Buffalo), $18,000
Park School of Buffalo (Amherst), $16,500
Buffalo Seminary (Buffalo), $15,970
Canisius High School (Buffalo), $9,950
St. Joseph's Collegiate Institute (Kenmore-Tonawanda), $9,040
Nardin Academy High School (Buffalo), $8,675
Buffalo Academy of the Sacred Heart (Amherst), $8,565
St. Francis High School (Frontier), $8,385
Mount St. Mary Academy (Kenmore-Tonawanda), $8,100
Holy Angels Academy (Buffalo), $7,800
Mount Mercy Academy (Buffalo), $7,100
Immaculata Academy (Frontier), $7,025
Bishop Timon-St. Jude High School (Buffalo), $7,000
Notre Dame High School (Batavia), $6,995
St. Mary's High School (Lancaster), $6,850
Christian Central Academy (Williamsville), $6,811
Niagara Catholic High School (Niagara Falls), $6,700
Cardinal O'Hara High School (Kenmore-Tonawanda), $6,650
West Seneca Christian School (West Seneca), $5,100
Archbishop Walsh Academy (Olean), $4,100



Read more: 4 WNY private schools top $10K in tuition - Business First of Buffalo (http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2010/07/26/daily11.html?surround=lfn#ixzz0up92KCZD)

[FisherRd]

What do we pay per student in one of the glorious Buffalo Public Schools?

[granpabob]

so these are the private schools if you add all the public schools cost per student what numbers do you get. cost per student and tution are about the same so who charges more and what do they get for their money.

[DomesticatedFeminist]

Mount mercy is not worth the 7 grand it costs.

They keep trying to contact me for alumni donations. Ok first off they cut out death and dying class, which was one of the only useful classes I took their, believe it or not. Health class was useful as well.

[FisherRd]

Mount mercy is not worth the 7 grand it costs.
They keep trying to contact me for alumni donations. Ok first off they cut out death and dying class, which was one of the only useful classes I took their, believe it or not. Health class was useful as well.

Oh, I believe it...

[Dougles]

What do we pay per student in one of the glorious Buffalo Public Schools?

between 10 and 18K...

What is the GOW school... never heard of it?

[granpabob]

between 10 and 18K...

What is the GOW school... never heard of it?

its a private boys school for boys with Dyslexia . they also provide rooms in dorms or houses around the school .That cost might include room and board

[Colonel Sun]

What do we pay per student in one of the glorious Buffalo Public Schools?

At one point the Buffalo Public Schools charged $7,000.00 per student if you wanted to go to a Buffalo Public school but didn't live in the District. (Yes, that does happen: kids want to graduate with their friends, kids go to City Honors, but the parents move or get divorced, and so on.)

The 7K figure was from 2005. My guess is it's now close to 10K.

As per the Buffalo Schools website, the 2010-11 budget is $806,000,000 with 37,000 students. That's about 22K per student.

[DomesticatedFeminist]

Oh, I believe it...

Don't you think my parents are owed a refund?

[DomesticatedFeminist]

Does anyone have the price on the waldorf school? Their website is very vague about it and said it sets price based on income or something.

Of course they are not listing elementary schools.

[Bioguy231]

between 10 and 18K...

What is the GOW school... never heard of it?

Last year when Carl Paladino ran his "advertisement" on the radio, he claimed the Buffalo Public Schools cost $28,000 per student. I remember him saying we could send all the kids in Buffalo to Nichols and save $10,000 per student.

[DomesticatedFeminist]

Last year when Carl Paladino ran his "advertisement" on the radio, he claimed the Buffalo Public Schools cost $28,000 per student. I remember him saying we could send all the kids in Buffalo to Nichols and save $10,000 per student.

Unless a child is special needs there is noway it can cost that much.

[Genoobie]

Okay, here we go. As I outlined in a previous thread, for students who attend BPS and have class sizes of about 30, 8 classes a day, the teacher payroll is something like $4500 (that includes benefits (used an approximate average salary of $100000 to include benefits).

Yet the cost is approximately $17K per student (the $800M number includes grant monies which may or may not be spent on instruction). So then where does that $13K go?

Probably...

Plant
Transportation
Special Needs students (there are many in Buffalo, none at the private schools).
Admin Overhead

And certainly, last but not least, waste. Of which I am sure there is a lot of.

The private schools don't provide transportation. They don't pay for sports expenditures. They have smaller classes. Etc, etc.

Certainly private schools are likely more efficient in some services, lacking in others.

There are reasons you can't compare the two. Private schools may opt not to give some Regent's exams where the passing rate would bring down their rating. Lots of other reasons you cannot compare, including the credentialed education level of the parents, income of the parents, etc, etc.

[FisherRd]

Of course you don't want to compare the two, it makes public schools look even worse, if that is even possible.
A few caveats aside, the fact we could send everyone that isn't a special needs student to a private school for the amount we pay per student (for them to fail or get a crap education) in a public school, is ridiculous.

The trouble students need to be segregated or put to work by the state so that the others can either survive or thrive. Not every child can be saved by the system, not every child deserves it. This whole idea that all shoud be treated equally is detrimental to those that want to learn.

[cookie]

for students who attend BPS and have class sizes of about 30
30?? Is that the average class size? Is there more than 1 teacher per class? According to the figure below, what's missing here?


Nat'l Center for Educational Statistics BPS states a student to teacher ratio of 11.9.

http://nces.ed.gov/ccd/districtsearch/district_detail.asp?Search=1&InstName=buffalo&DistrictType=1&DistrictType=2&DistrictType=3&DistrictType=4&DistrictType=5&DistrictType=6&DistrictType=7&NumOfStudentsRange=more&NumOfSchoolsRange=more&ID2=3605850&details=1

[snapple]

Okay, here we go. As I outlined in a previous thread, for students who attend BPS and have class sizes of about 30, 8 classes a day, the teacher payroll is something like $4500 (that includes benefits (used an approximate average salary of $100000 to include benefits).

Yet the cost is approximately $17K per student (the $800M number includes grant monies which may or may not be spent on instruction). So then where does that $13K go?

Probably...

Plant
Transportation
Special Needs students (there are many in Buffalo, none at the private schools).
Admin Overhead

And certainly, last but not least, waste. Of which I am sure there is a lot of.

The private schools don't provide transportation. They don't pay for sports expenditures. They have smaller classes. Etc, etc.

Certainly private schools are likely more efficient in some services, lacking in others.

There are reasons you can't compare the two. Private schools may opt not to give some Regent's exams where the passing rate would bring down their rating. Lots of other reasons you cannot compare, including the credentialed education level of the parents, income of the parents, etc, etc.


privite schools provide transportation, within a certain distance, my son went to st francis and was bussed by Lakeshore central, and the only sport I payed for was hockey, but thats in any school.

[DomesticatedFeminist]

[QUOTE=Genoobie;665026]
Special Needs students (there are many in Buffalo, none at the private schools).

That isn't true. Special needs includes any student with an IEP or BIP, and well there may not be as many students in private school they are there. HOWEVER, guess what? The school district the student lives in pays for the services the student needs while attending the private school.

Keep in mind the services include speech therapy and occupational therapy. Also remedial reading and math teachers are provided by the public school district. I believe they use teachers from the district but the district where the student lives pays for it. So if you have a child attending Timon who lives in West Seneca who gets speech, they have a buffalo school teacher but the services are paid for by west seneca.

So Buffalo is paying whatever cost per student, they forget to mention that it includes special education services for private schools.

[therising]

privite schools provide transportation, within a certain distance, my son went to st francis and was bussed by Lakeshore central, and the only sport I payed for was hockey, but thats in any school.

I've always wondered, when a private school kid gets a school bus ride, who pays for it? Is it the district the kid lives in?

[therising]

It always amazes me that people actually love their brats enough to spend this kind of scratch on them.

[Yankeefan2009]

Does anyone know offhand what the ration of dollars spent between regular kids and special needs cases is at the average public school? I've always wondered that. Last I heard it was somewhere between 5 and 6 to 1.

[FisherRd]

I've always wondered, when a private school kid gets a school bus ride, who pays for it? Is it the district the kid lives in?

West Seneca would bus everyone to a hub (Potter Road) where the other districts bussed their kids. Then they would be bussed to Timon and Mercy (for example), but I have no idea whose district did that portion of the ride.

Obviously the parents pay school taxes in their district which would cover the bussing, but I don't know how the second leg of the journey works.

[granpabob]

it does not matter where your child goes to school you still pay school taxes. the difference is if the child goes to public school they get a bus ride and teaching. when a child goes to private school the taxes still goes to the public sector but they only bus the child. if the child is home schooled the public school gets all the taxes and just provives a few tests

[therising]

You're both right (Fish and GPB), don't know why I wasn't thinking of it that way.

[Linda_D]

privite schools provide transportation, within a certain distance, my son went to st francis and was bussed by Lakeshore central, and the only sport I payed for was hockey, but thats in any school.

Private schools don't provide transportation. State law requires the local school district to pay for student transportation for private school students up within 15 miles. Private school students who live in the COB and live beyond the transportation limits (2 miles for MS, 3 miles for HS) qualify for NFTA bus passes which are paid for by the BPS. I don't believe that the BPS provide yellow busses for private schools, however.

[DomesticatedFeminist]

West Seneca would bus everyone to a hub (Potter Road) where the other districts bussed their kids. Then they would be bussed to Timon and Mercy (for example), but I have no idea whose district did that portion of the ride.

Obviously the parents pay school taxes in their district which would cover the bussing, but I don't know how the second leg of the journey works.

Buffalo uses the metro for high school kids but they get passes through the district if they live so far from school. Not sure the exact distance to qualify, many of the public schools use to have special buses. Not sure if they still do that.

[DomesticatedFeminist]

Does anyone know offhand what the ration of dollars spent between regular kids and special needs cases is at the average public school? I've always wondered that. Last I heard it was somewhere between 5 and 6 to 1.

It depends on the services the child receives. The best strategy is to give them services when they are young and it saves the district money in the long run because they learn the skills to cope and deal with their needs on their own so they aren't a problem when they get older.

[Linda_D]

[quote]

That isn't true. Special needs includes any student with an IEP or BIP, and well there may not be as many students in private school they are there. HOWEVER, guess what? The school district the student lives in pays for the services the student needs while attending the private school.

Keep in mind the services include speech therapy and occupational therapy. Also remedial reading and math teachers are provided by the public school district. I believe they use teachers from the district but the district where the student lives pays for it. So if you have a child attending Timon who lives in West Seneca who gets speech, they have a buffalo school teacher but the services are paid for by west seneca.

So Buffalo is paying whatever cost per student, they forget to mention that it includes special education services for private schools.

Few if any private schools actually have developmentally or emotionally handicapped students, so the issue is largely moot. The public schools do provide speech therapists, psychologists, and remedial teachers for private schools to serve all students not just those who have IEPs.

Another important thing to keep in mind is that Buffalo also pays for charter schools. In fact, Buffalo is getting charged an extra $11+ million in payments to charters.

[steven]

It always amazes me that people actually love their brats enough to spend this kind of scratch on them.

I sent my oldest to Cardinal O'Hara and IMO it was well worth it.

I also paid for his bus pass out of pocket.

[DomesticatedFeminist]

[quote=DomesticatedFeminist;665043]

Few if any private schools actually have developmentally or emotionally handicapped students, so the issue is largely moot. The public schools do provide speech therapists, psychologists, and remedial teachers for private schools to serve all students not just those who have IEPs.

Another important thing to keep in mind is that Buffalo also pays for charter schools. In fact, Buffalo is getting charged an extra $11+ million in payments to charters.

Charter schools have more special needs cost than private for sure. However a student with a speech delay does have a developmental delay. I am not saying the district shouldn't cover it, the parents most likely are tax payers.

Most parents with special needs students realize it's easier to get their child services if they are in public so they opt to keep their child in public for that reason because they dont want to battle with the district. I am told Notre Dame's teachers are excellent for dealing with students with social disorders. They have many students with adhd and even one with aspergers. Usually what happens is the students eventually get what is called a 504, which is just more or less instructions like preferantal seating or eating lunch in the classroom, those aren't really costing the district much, it is just in writing so the teacher knows the kid has to sit in the front of the class. Unless a child has servere needs, they usually have a 504 as they get older, that's including public schools.

504's can include any special instructions.

[Dougles]

Another important thing to keep in mind is that Buffalo also pays for charter schools. In fact, Buffalo is getting charged an extra $11+ million in payments to charters.

Yeah but the BPS still get's to keep over 1/4 of the money given to them by Albany and DC for those charter school students!

It's like your mom giving you $100 to pay for your kids dance lessons, but then only spend $75 on the lessons and pocket the rest!

[Linda_D]

Yeah but the BPS still get's to keep over 1/4 of the money given to them by Albany and DC for those charter school students!

It's like your mom giving you $100 to pay for your kids dance lessons, but then only spend $75 on the lessons and pocket the rest!

That's not the point. The point is somebody took the BPS school budget and divided it by the number of students to get a figure. Myself and other posters are pointing out that that figure isn't correct because the BPS (and other public school districts) have to cover some private school students' costs as well as the cost of charter schools.

It works like this:

You have 10 ducks and your neighbor has 10 ducks, but the duck boss gives you $200 to take care of the ducks with the rule that you have to give $75 to your neighbor to take care of his ducks. Your neighbor doesn't offer anything to entice the finicky ducks, so they stay with you, and since you are required to get all the ducks you have up to a minimum weight, you have to buy fancy food and do other tricks to get the finicky ones to eat. Still, they lag. Also, from your $200, you're supposed provide transportation to the duck pond to your 10 ducks, your neighbor's 10 ducks, and the 5 ducks that belong to another neighbor.

Now the duck watchdog comes along and screams that you're doing a lousy job because you're spending $200 to take care of 10 ducks while your poor neighbor is taking care of his ducks on only $75, plus your ducks are too skinny. In other words, you're spending $20 a duck to get less results than your neighbor who only spends $7.50 a duck.

Ain't that just ducky? :eek:

[DomesticatedFeminist]

It's impossible to get an accurate budget of what it cost per student in the buffalo public school unless you subtract the cost of busing and special services that goto private and charter schools. I guarantee atleast a million of the public school budget goes to private schools.

[Genoobie]

Actually, some private schools (not all) don't offer many Regents exams because they don't want data showing where they are ranked.

Point is, you cannot compare private and public schools. It's not a legitimate comparison. They differ in too many regards.

Of course, if you want to compare them using bologna statistics, go ahead.

City Honors ranked much higher nationally than any of the schools. However, I don't give stats like that much credibility just like I don't pay much attention to the low end either. Both my kids attend BPS and read very well for their age. I'm not against private schools. Fine if you have the money and want to shell out money for education, I can't think of many better things to purchase. Beats high end housing and cars and junk like that.

btw what does this have to do with 4 schools topping 10K in tuition?

[granpabob]

Yeah but the BPS still get's to keep over 1/4 of the money given to them by Albany and DC for those charter school students!

It's like your mom giving you $100 to pay for your kids dance lessons, but then only spend $75 on the lessons and pocket the rest!

Buffalo wants to keep all of the money for the kids even if they are not in buffalo schools. the state allots so much per student so when the city does not have the student any more they claim they have lost money but never state they have less kids to teach. besides the city still gets some money for all the children going to charter schools but only 1/4 of what they get when they actually have to watch the kid ( notice I said watch not teach. 50% failure rate is not teaching)

[300miles]

As per the Buffalo Schools website, the 2010-11 budget is $806,000,000 with 37,000 students. That's about 22K per student.
I'm wondering if that calculation would be different if the Buffalo Schools received large donations from wealthy alumni or had it's own endowment funds...

[DomesticatedFeminist]

I'm wondering if that calculation would be different if the Buffalo Schools received large donations from wealthy alumni or had it's own endowment funds...

I could be wrong but doesn't city honors have fund raisers for their school?