Speeding tickets- Judge/Town/Driving school SCAM?? (Wales side note)

[Jeniinnylons]

Well for all those who have ever got a speeding ticket you know that they almost always will reduce it. Why is that?

Well because they count on that money for their towns bills. Yes this is true. When setting out to do their town budgets they add this money in when figuring your taxes.

So this asks a few good questions:

1) Is this right and legal?
The Judge themselves is making out on this by not paying as high of taxes as he/she would. Thus they are profiting from this arragement. The question then is is this legal since they stand to profit.

2) Is there really a deterant or do they want you to speed?
We all know that they are making out on reducing the ticket to a parking ticket. So what would happen if we all of a sudden stopped speeding? The toens would all have to raise the taxes on a alarming scale. So is this a deterant. NO! In all reality they DON'T want you to stop.

4) Do the driving schools really work?
Uh no they don't. Not on any major scale. All they do is place more money into people's pockets. Go to a class sometime and see how many pople they have and what they make. $25 per person. Last class I was in had over 30 people.

3) Why not donate the money?
Well GREED! The towns/villages are just as greedy as the next individual and they are out for themselves. See question #1 and #2. This in itself by donating the money would only prove the towns are NOT out for the money and would go to help those in need. The NFL takes it's fines from it's players and matches them and then donates the money to charity. Why not the towns/villages?

4) WALES TOWN COURT : Is there no end to the GREED?
On a personal side note I have got tickets over the years in different towns. Some are better then other. Wlaes and the Wales Town Judge are outright disgusting in their/his actions. There comes a time in a lot of people's lives where they are hurting an almost/if not broke. I personally explained my situation of receiving no child support, no job, having multiple kids and just having gone on food stamps. At times like these there is no reason to kick someone anymore while they are down. Well this Judge didn't seem to care. He obviously didn't want higher taxes and it didn't matter if a couple of kids were clothed or ate. DISGUSTING! There should be people there for you in times of need not making things worse.

On the other side years and years ago I received a ticket in Hamburg Town. At the time was disabled and had not got any money yet. The Judge there asked how much I had in my wallet, I told him and let him know I had no gas in my car and he fined me $25! He left me with money to get some gas too. We need more Judges like this.

SHAME ON YOU WALES AND YOUR JUDGE ! ! ! !

[Surfing USA]

Well for all those who have ever got a speeding ticket you know that they almost always will reduce it. Why is that?

Well because they count on that money for their towns bills. Yes this is true. When setting out to do their town budgets they add this money in when figuring your taxes.

So this asks a few good questions:

1) Is this right and legal?
The Judge themselves is making out on this by not paying as high of taxes as he/she would. Thus they are profiting from this arragement. The question then is is this legal since they stand to profit. I'd rather the money stay local than going to the state. When it goes to the state, where do you think most of the revenues end up? That's correct; N.Y. City! Would you prefer the guy who gets his salsa from N.Y. City benefit from your speeding arrest rather than Western New Yorkers?

2) Is there really a deterant or do they want you to speed?
We all know that they are making out on reducing the ticket to a parking ticket. So what would happen if we all of a sudden stopped speeding? The toens would all have to raise the taxes on a alarming scale. So is this a deterant. NO! In all reality they DON'T want you to stop. Yes, there are deterrents all over the place. They're called "SPEED LIMIT" and "SPEED ZONE AHEAD" SIGNS!

4) Do the driving schools really work?
Uh no they don't. Not on any major scale. All they do is place more money into people's pockets. Go to a class sometime and see how many pople they have and what they make. $25 per person. Last class I was in had over 30 people. They're designed to work for those who pay attention.

3) Why not donate the money?
Well GREED! The towns/villages are just as greedy as the next individual and they are out for themselves. See question #1 and #2. This in itself by donating the money would only prove the towns are NOT out for the money and would go to help those in need. The NFL takes it's fines from it's players and matches them and then donates the money to charity. Why not the towns/villages? And while they're at it, why not triple our taxes and donate half of that too?

4) WALES TOWN COURT : Is there no end to the GREED?
On a personal side note I have got tickets over the years in different towns. Some are better then other. Wlaes and the Wales Town Judge are outright disgusting in their/his actions. There comes a time in a lot of people's lives where they are hurting an almost/if not broke. I personally explained my situation of receiving no child support, no job, having multiple kids and just having gone on food stamps. At times like these there is no reason to kick someone anymore while they are down. Well this Judge didn't seem to care. He obviously didn't want higher taxes and it didn't matter if a couple of kids were clothed or ate. DISGUSTING! There should be people there for you in times of need not making things worse. All these problems you have, yet, you continue to speed! If you can't afford it, STOP SPEEDING! If and when you do, you'll find that a lighter foot will produce better gas mileage. Between no more tickets and better gas mileage, it'll almost be as though you're paying yourself the child support you're not receiving.

On the other side years and years ago I received a ticket in Hamburg Town. At the time was disabled and had not got any money yet. The Judge there asked how much I had in my wallet, I told him and let him know I had no gas in my car and he fined me $25! He left me with money to get some gas too. We need more Judges like this. I can reasonably assure you that if you were a man, you wouldn't have walked out of there paying a measly $25.00

SHAME ON YOU WALES AND YOUR JUDGE ! ! ! !
Stop speeding and you'll have nobody to shame. By you slowing down, it'll save you money and OUR lives.

[colossus27]

Well for all those who have ever got a speeding ticket you know that they almost always will reduce it. Why is that?

This has been pounded into the ground here (http://forums.speakupwny.com/showthread.php?t=10802&page=3). Those that insist speeding enforcement is anything more than a revenue scam won't listen to anything else you might say.

[Surfing USA]

This has been pounded into the ground here (http://forums.speakupwny.com/showthread.php?t=10802&page=3). Those that insist speeding enforcement is anything more than a revenue scam won't listen to anything else you might say.I completely agree that it's a revenue builder, (not necessarily a "scam."), for local communities, but everyone knows when they speed, they're at risk of being caught. Whenever one speeds, in a sense they're gambling. If you don't have the funds available to gamble, such as Jeniinnylons, then don't go to the casino. It's that simple. As far as the "revenue scam" is concerned, it's better local municipalities collect it from the "gamblers" rather than the non-gambling taxpayers.

Although,..... we do end up paying for her, self confessed, multiple speeding violations one way, or another. How you ask? Our insurance rates, that's how. Believe it, or not, part of your insurance rates reflect other peoples traffic violations from in and around your community. Ask any insurance agent.

I really don't mean to be a knob, I just happen to be one.

[colossus27]

Whenever one speeds, in a sense they're gambling. If you don't have the funds available to gamble, such as Jeniinnylons, then don't go to the casino. It's that simple. As far as the "revenue scam" is concerned, it's better local municipalities collect it from the "gamblers" rather than the non-gambling taxpayers.

Although,..... we do end up paying for her, self confessed, multiple speeding violations one way, or another. How you ask? Our insurance rates, that's how. Believe it, or not, part of your insurance rates reflect other peoples traffic violations from in and around your community. Ask any insurance agent.

Can't agree w/your first point. If that were the case, off-duty cops would get speeding tickets when they're speeding. Connected people would also get them too.

Speeding or otherwise, I never condone the collection of taxes- the government's needs always outweigh the revenue stream, particularly around here.

If they'd bother enforcing the damn laws on the books, instead of the one that requires the least effort from a cop (or a court, for that matter), the roads would be much safer than while they're doing some idiotic 'crackdown' on speeding.

Insurance rates increase because of speeding? Two-edged 'concept' here. For starters, the accident rates, per mile driven, decreased when the speed limit was raised to 65MPH. So in this case, the insurance company benefits, by less claims against their policies. Did you see a decrease when the rates dropped? We both know the answer.

Geico, meanwhile, was donating radar guns to local municipalities.

[Surfing USA]

Can't agree w/your first point. If that were the case, off-duty cops would get speeding tickets when they're speeding. Connected people would also get them too.

Speeding or otherwise, I never condone the collection of taxes- the government's needs always outweigh the revenue stream, particularly around here.

If they'd bother enforcing the damn laws on the books, instead of the one that requires the least effort from a cop (or a court, for that matter), the roads would be much safer than while they're doing some idiotic 'crackdown' on speeding.

Insurance rates increase because of speeding? Two-edged 'concept' here. For starters, the accident rates, per mile driven, decreased when the speed limit was raised to 65MPH. So in this case, the insurance company benefits, by less claims against their policies. Did you see a decrease when the rates dropped? We both know the answer.

Geico, meanwhile, was donating radar guns to local municipalities.
For the most part your first point is accurate. However, there are exceptions. NY State Troopers will usually write a cop from another agency. I've heard that from various cops in the WNY area, but was always skeptical until I witnessed a friend who flashed their badge in the attempt to avoid a seatbelt violation. The trooper wrote the ticket and said, "have a nice day." So it doesn't always work out that way. Most of the time, but not always.

As far as your second point goes; I agree full heartedly. However, until we the people revolutionize rather than keep taking it up the wazoo, it is what it is, and it sucks. That being said, I'd rather the speeders feed the tax glutens the extra gravy they desire rather than all taxpayers. I refuse to contribute any more than required by law to government charities.

I also agree with your third point. How many times have you said, "where's a cop when you need one?" There's been times I've said that and there was a cop right there. "Beautiful," I thought to myself! "It's about time there was a cop right there to witness the blatant act of idiocy of another driver," I thought. But, the cops acted as if they didn't see a thing. Write them all, or write nothing at all! WTF!!!

As for your fourth point; Many years ago, when they lowered the speed limit from 65 MPH to 55 MPH, they claimed the fatality rate dropped considerably but when referring to speed variances on thruways, I disagree that 55 MPH is safer. Read the following article, it makes a lot of sense. http://www.buffalo.edu/news/fast-execute.cgi/article-page.html?article=82360009&print=1

On roads other than thruways, such as in Wales, I believe the opposite to be true. A head-on-collision, or a vehicle crashing into tree at higher rates of speed are more deadly. Most country roads have no guardrails. Unless some bozo enters the thruway via an exit ramp, the likelihood of a head-on-collision is highly improbable. Many roads in Wales travel through wide open areas which causes very hazardous road conditions in the winter whether it's snowing or not. As long as there's snow on the ground and it's windy outside, the roads become covered so often, the road crews can't keep up with it. Add 'Jeniinnylons' hot-rodding down the road to the mix and the element of danger becomes much greater.

As for Geico donating radar guns to police agencies; first of all, that just goes to prove my point regarding insurance rates, and second; DAMN that lizard who licks it's eyeballs!!! :D

I hope I'll never get hit in the reeeeaaaar again! :D

[colossus27]

For the most part your first point is accurate. However, there are exceptions. NY State Troopers will usually write a cop from another agency. I've heard that from various cops in the WNY area, but was always skeptical until I witnessed a friend who flashed their badge in the attempt to avoid a seatbelt violation. The trooper wrote the ticket and said, "have a nice day." So it doesn't always work out that way. Most of the time, but not always.

On roads other than thruways, such as in Wales, I believe the opposite to be true. A head-on-collision, or a vehicle crashing into tree at higher rates of speed are more deadly. Most country roads have no guardrails. Unless some bozo enters the thruway via an exit ramp, the likelihood of a head-on-collision is highly improbable. Many roads in Wales travel through wide open areas which causes very hazardous road conditions in the winter whether it's snowing or not. As long as there's snow on the ground and it's windy outside, the roads become covered so often, the road crews can't keep up with it. Add 'Jeniinnylons' hot-rodding down the road to the mix and the element of danger becomes much greater.

As for Geico donating radar guns to police agencies; first of all, that just goes to prove my point regarding insurance rates, and second; DAMN that lizard who licks it's eyeballs!!! :D

I hope I'll never get hit in the reeeeaaaar again! :D

State Troopers do that because they can. You can bet your bucks they don't ticket each other...and I'll wager they get ticketed locally too. Interesting, I've never heard this before and I've got a number of friends that are troopers, and a few more that are local cops.

Last time I'd gotten a ticket in Henrietta, the judge was categorically dismissing each and every single seatbelt ticket...but that was a long while back.

[Surfing USA]

State Troopers do that because they can. You can bet your bucks they don't ticket each other...and I'll wager they get ticketed locally too. Interesting, I've never heard this before and I've got a number of friends that are troopers, and a few more that are local cops.

Last time I'd gotten a ticket in Henrietta, the judge was categorically dismissing each and every single seatbelt ticket...but that was a long while back.If it sounded as though I was stereotyping all troopers, I apologize. The point I was attempting to make, is that when a cop writes another cop, at least in WNY, more time than not, it's a trooper writing an officer from a local agency. I've been told it usually happens because the trooper is pissed-off that a cop from a local agency wouldn't cut one of his relatives or friends a break. Once the trooper writes the other cop, it becomes an all-out war. :eek:

As for the judge in Henrietta, it's good to know there's at least one judge out there who believes the people have a right to make their own decisions. I wonder what his take is regarding the motorcycle helmet law? :confused:

[colossus27]

As for the judge in Henrietta, it's good to know there's at least one judge out there who believes the people have a right to make their own decisions. I wonder what his take is regarding the motorcycle helmet law? :confused:

Interesting comment, considering what you wrote earlier. A corpse is much more expensive to dispose of, compared to a couple fenders and some glass.

Although,..... we do end up paying for her, self confessed, multiple speeding violations one way, or another. How you ask? Our insurance rates, that's how. Believe it, or not, part of your insurance rates reflect other peoples traffic violations from in and around your community. Ask any insurance agent.

[BigGuy]

As for the judge in Henrietta, it's good to know there's at least one judge out there who believes the people have a right to make their own decisions.

The people have the right to not drive. Driving is a privilege, not any kind of guaranteed "right".

Getting behind the wheel means the assumption of knowledge of the rules and to follow them, including required equipment, speed, use of seat belts, no use of cell phones, wipers and headlights in the rain, etc.

Don't like the rules? Lobby to change them. But don't whine, piss and moan about your driving "rights".

[Surfing USA]

Interesting comment, considering what you wrote earlier. A corpse is much more expensive to dispose of, compared to a couple fenders and some glass.Isn't the corps' estate responsible for "disposal" anymore? :confused: If not, my family and friends have been getting ripped-off for a long time. :D

[Surfing USA]

The people have the right to not drive. Driving is a privilege, not any kind of guaranteed "right".

Getting behind the wheel means the assumption of knowledge of the rules and to follow them, including required equipment, speed, use of seat belts, no use of cell phones, wipers and headlights in the rain, etc.

Don't like the rules? Lobby to change them. But don't whine, piss and moan about your driving "rights".First of all, you're talking to the wrong person when it comes to driving! I haven't driven a motor vehicle in about four-and-a-half-years now, thanks to a heavy footed woman who decided to turn my life upside down one day! I'm fairly certain it wasn't intentional, however, I'm very certain the cause of the crash was pure unadulterated stupidity on her part! Luckily there was a police officer two cars behind me that witnessed said stupidity. You know how it works. The one that causes the crash, springs out of their vehicle, uninjured and screams, "I HAD THE RIGHT-OF-WAY," at the victim, who's too injured and in too much pain to respond. Thank GOD for the cop being my witness!
All I remember is the cop laughing at her idiotic "right-of-way' rant.

Whereas a drivers license is a privilege, as opposed to a right, I, or any NY State resident over the age of 16, has the RIGHT, as a "backseat" passenger, to NOT wear a seat belt. Also, if a physical condition inhibits the proper use of a seat belt, you may be exempt provided your physician certifies your condition and exemption in writing. Therefore, another RIGHT to not wear a seatbelt. Not to mention, Taxis, Liveries, Buses, (other than school buses), Police/Fire and Ambulances are also exempt from the seat belt law in NY State. Therefore, drivers and/or passengers of the aforementioned vehicles also have the RIGHT to not wear seatbelts.

I for one, firmly believe in the usage seat belts, for they have saved my life twice before. However, there have been many times I've wished my life wasn't spared in the last crash. Whereas I believe in the USE of seat belts, I also believe competent adults should have the RIGHT to decide as to whether they want to use them, or not, no matter what type of vehicle they occupy. It's sad to hear from people such as you, who would rather the United States of America be a TOTALITARIEST nation! :eek: :eek: :eek:

[colossus27]

Whereas a drivers license is a privilege, as opposed to a right, I, or any NY State resident over the age of 16, has the RIGHT, as a "backseat" passenger, to NOT wear a seat belt. Also, if a physical condition inhibits the proper use of a seat belt, you may be exempt provided your physician certifies your condition and exemption in writing. Therefore, another RIGHT to not wear a seatbelt. Not to mention, Taxis, Liveries, Buses, (other than school buses), Police/Fire and Ambulances are also exempt from the seat belt law in NY State. Therefore, drivers and/or passengers of the aforementioned vehicles also have the RIGHT to not wear seatbelts.

I for one, firmly believe in the usage seat belts, for they have saved my life twice before. However, there have been many times I've wished my life wasn't spared in the last crash. Whereas I believe in the USE of seat belts, I also believe competent adults should have the RIGHT to decide as to whether they want to use them, or not, no matter what type of vehicle they occupy. It's sad to hear from people such as you, who would rather the United States of America be a TOTALITARIEST nation! :eek: :eek: :eek:




You're still continuing about this- yet earlier when you contradicted yourself about insurance rates, you made a joke and dropped it entirely.

Care to explain your logic here?

[Surfing USA]

You're still continuing about this- yet earlier when you contradicted yourself about insurance rates, you made a joke and dropped it entirely.

Care to explain your logic here?If you'd make yourself clearer, I'd love to. I'm fairly certain you're referring to when you jumped on me regarding my attitude about "freedom of choice." Your comment and question to me was as follows.Originally Posted bycolossus27
Interesting comment, considering what you wrote earlier. A corpse is much more expensive to dispose of, compared to a couple fenders and some glass.Maybe you can give me cost comparisons so I may refine my answer. What I and four separate insurance companies do know, is that my accident would've cost them and myself included, a LOT LESS had I died in my crash. Who knows? maybe I just answered your question satisfactorily after all. :confused: :)

[colossus27]

If you'd make yourself clearer, I'd love to. I'm fairly certain you're referring to when you jumped on me regarding my attitude about "freedom of choice." Your comment and question to me was as follows.Maybe you can give me cost comparisons so I may refine my answer. What I and four separate insurance companies do know, is that my accident would've cost them and myself included, a LOT LESS had I died in my crash. Who knows? maybe I just answered your question satisfactorily after all. :confused: :)

Your point was that ticketing speeders reduces our insurance premiums. Then you said that people should be allowed to ride w/out seatbelts, or for that matter, on bikes w/out helmets. These same insurance companies- I'll wager this includes at least one of your four- pushed for airbags, and mandated seatbelts, among other things. They don't do things like this because it will make them lose money.

My sympathies about the wreck- that's an awful experience to say the least.

[Surfing USA]

Your point was that ticketing speeders reduces our insurance premiums. Then you said that people should be allowed to ride w/out seatbelts, or for that matter, on bikes w/out helmets. These same insurance companies- I'll wager this includes at least one of your four- pushed for airbags, and mandated seatbelts, among other things. They don't do things like this because it will make them lose money.

My sympathies about the wreck- that's an awful experience to say the least.

The following is the original quote of mine that you're questioning.Originally Posted by Surfing USA
Whenever one speeds, in a sense they're gambling. If you don't have the funds available to gamble, such as Jeniinnylons, then don't go to the casino. It's that simple. As far as the "revenue scam" is concerned, it's better local municipalities collect it from the "gamblers" rather than the non-gambling taxpayers.

Although,..... we do end up paying for her, self confessed, multiple speeding violations one way, or another. How you ask? Our insurance rates, that's how. Believe it, or not, part of your insurance rates reflect other peoples traffic violations from in and around your community. Ask any insurance agent.
Please pay very careful attention to the second paragraph. I'm not sure that I could've been much clearer in the attempt to get my point across that SPEEDERS who are caught DO cause insurance rates to increase for everyone
else, in and around the community of said violations.

I hope this clears things up for you. If for some reason, or another, I don't make sense, I blame it on the several pain killers I ingest daily. That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it! :D

[colossus27]

The following is the original quote of mine that you're questioning.
Please pay very careful attention to the second paragraph. I'm not sure that I could've been much clearer in the attempt to get my point across that SPEEDERS who are caught DO cause insurance rates to increase for everyone
else, in and around the community of said violations.

I hope this clears things up for you. If for some reason, or another, I don't make sense, I blame it on the several pain killers I ingest daily. That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it! :D

No, you're point is well explained, but it doesn't follow. The insurance companies raise rates of speeders simply because they can. They're not socialists, they're not non-profits, they just do it. I don't understand how you can say my rates increase when somebody that lives a half-mile away from me gets a speeding ticket.

In CT, a state law mandates that insurance premiums cannot be increased due to speeding tickets. This directly refutes your point.

[Surfing USA]

No, you're point is well explained, but it doesn't follow. The insurance companies raise rates of speeders simply because they can. They're not socialists, they're not non-profits, they just do it. I don't understand how you can say my rates increase when somebody that lives a half-mile away from me gets a speeding ticket.

In CT, a state law mandates that insurance premiums cannot be increased due to speeding tickets. This directly refutes your point.A couple years ago, I called my homeowners insurance company to piss & moan about a substantial increase in my rates. I was informed that because there was an unusually high rate of claims in Erie County, EVERYBODY's rates were going up. "B-b-b-but, I've NEVER made a claim," I exclaimed! They told me that the law of averages says I'm likely to in the very near future. Fast forward a few years. I have yet to file a claim but my rates continue to climb! Lesson learned; DON'T hesitate to file a claim, because your rates will increase either way.

Regarding CT State law, I can't find any such NYS law at, http://www.ins.state.ny.us/
that states they can't do so in NY State. However, even if NYS had such a law, speeders on non-highway roads increase the chances of collisions significantly,therefore, we end-up paying for them one way, or another.

PS: I don't mean to sound like a Saint. I've done plenty of speeding in my past. Mostly on highways and wide open country roads. In all of the years I've been driving, I received only ONE speeding ticket. Not bad, eh?

Come to think of it, I think I deserve an applause for that one!
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d27/HardcorexXxOi/Animations/thzzappl3ap.gif

The ones that really irk me, are the idiots that go 55 MPH in residential areas where the speed limit is usually 30 MPH. These are the types who say, "but the kid ran right out in front of me,...I never had a chance to brake." Thank god for accident investigator's and their ability to determine speeds prior to such tragedies.

[colossus27]

Regarding CT State law, I can't find any such NYS law at that states they can't do so in NY State. However, even if NYS had such a law, speeders on non-highway roads increase the chances of collisions significantly,therefore, we end-up paying for them one way, or another.

PS: I don't mean to sound like a Saint. I've done plenty of speeding in my past. Mostly on highways and wide open country roads. In all of the years I've been driving, I received only ONE speeding ticket. Not bad, eh?

The ones that really irk me, are the idiots that go 55 MPH in residential areas where the speed limit is usually 30 MPH. These are the types who say, "but the kid ran right out in front of me,...I never had a chance to brake." Thank god for accident investigator's and their ability to determine speeds prior to such tragedies.

There's no law like that in NY.

Speeders on non-highway roads increase the chance of collision in what way? The two don't follow. Is somebody going 60MPH on a 55MPH country road more likely to lose control (the real cause of a collision)? You already know the answer is no, because everybody- with few exceptions- is probably going 65MPH anyway. Somebody doing 85MPH deserves to be locked up, but it's a safe bet they know where the speed traps are...only a rolling cop will catch them, and that is unlikely.

Impressive, regarding speeding. I'm somewhere around seven or eight in about 22 years of driving. Discounting speed traps, I'd only have 2 tickets. Experience is what saves ya there.

I don't disagree at all with your last point- lock those bastards up- where I take issue w/that in general is when a six-lane road (Transit, Dick, Genessee, for example) is so badly managed you are either going to speed or wait for the lights. That, IMO, is a perfect speed trap, because most people don't think of it that way.

Great avatar, BTW.

[Surfing USA]

There's no law like that in NY.

Speeders on non-highway roads increase the chance of collision in what way? The two don't follow. Is somebody going 60MPH on a 55MPH country road more likely to lose control (the real cause of a collision)? You already know the answer is no, because everybody- with few exceptions- is probably going 65MPH anyway. Somebody doing 85MPH deserves to be locked up, but it's a safe bet they know where the speed traps are...only a rolling cop will catch them, and that is unlikely.

Great avatar, BTW. Most highway's road conditions are typically far better maintained than non-highway roads; i.e. fewer potholes, salted and plowed considerably more often. Other examples that make highways safer to travel would be, raised reflective markers, (intended to awaken sleepy drivers that drift towards the shoulder), real-time electronic "road hazard ahead" signs, (not always up to date), and most importantly, divisions, hence "divided highways," which greatly reduce the possibility of head-on-crashes. There's probably some points I forgot to mention, but I'm fairly certain I've listed enough to prove my earlier statement regarding highways being safer than non-highway roads. :confused:

PS: Thanks for the avatar compliment! http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f388/1963judy/Animations/full_of_it_cut.gif

[speaker]

Oh gee---! Is that just your avatar? I thought it was you, surf
!!!:eek:

[Surfing USA]

Oh gee---! Is that just your avatar? I thought it was you, surf
!!!:eek:I grew-up to be even better looking, if you can believe that.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y168/afigluiz1/Animations/man2.gif

[colossus27]

There's probably some points I forgot to mention, but I'm fairly certain I've listed enough to prove my earlier statement regarding highways being safer than non-highway roads. :confused:

PS: Thanks for the avatar compliment! http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f388/1963judy/Animations/full_of_it_cut.gif

No denying what you're saying, but it doesn't convince- well, me at least- that somebody driving 5MPH over the limit will automatically be a greater collision risk. It's all about the friction circle, man...just ask Walter. Or Colin.

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[Surfing USA]

Originally Posted by colossus27
No denying what you're saying, but it doesn't convince- well, me at least- that somebody driving 5MPH over the limit will automatically be a greater collision risk. It's all about the friction circle, man...just ask Walter. Or Colin.
I don't remember writing anything that would reflect negative thoughts towards people that travel between 5 - 10 MPH over the speed limit. If I did, I apologize, for that would make me a hypocrite. In fact, most local police agencies have an unwritten rule that allows drivers a 10 MPH buffer, even in 30 MPH speed zones. What I do have a problem with, is people who travel at higher rates of speed than they, and/or their vehicle can reasonably handle. Also, as I stated earlier, I despise people who fly through residential neighborhoods. Getting somewhere a couple minutes earlier isn't worth risking the lives of other people. Besides, if they were to kill someone, the idea of getting to their destination early goes right down the drain.

As for the attached videos, all I can think to say, is AWESOME!!! Especially the first one. I'd estimate the driver in the first video is probably in the top ONE PERCENT of the best-of-the-best drivers in the World. I've always wanted to try something like that, but never had the time, or the money. My adrenaline was pumping just watching it. At the same time, it nearly brought tears to my eyes knowing that I'll most likely never get a chance to do so, at least in this lifetime. Let's have a pity party for me. One....two.... three....AWWWWW!!!! :D :D :D

[colossus27]

I don't remember writing anything that would reflect negative thoughts towards people that travel between 5 - 10 MPH over the speed limit. If I did, I apologize, for that would make me a hypocrite. In fact, most local police agencies have an unwritten rule that allows drivers a 10 MPH buffer, even in 30 MPH speed zones. What I do have a problem with, is people who travel at higher rates of speed than they, and/or their vehicle can reasonably handle. Also, as I stated earlier, I despise people who fly through residential neighborhoods. Getting somewhere a couple minutes earlier isn't worth risking the lives of other people. Besides, if they were to kill someone, the idea of getting to their destination early goes right down the drain.

As for the attached videos, all I can think to say, is AWESOME!!! Especially the first one. I'd estimate the driver in the first video is probably in the top ONE PERCENT of the best-of-the-best drivers in the World. I've always wanted to try something like that, but never had the time, or the money. My adrenaline was pumping just watching it. At the same time, it nearly brought tears to my eyes knowing that I'll most likely never get a chance to do so, at least in this lifetime. Let's have a pity party for me. One....two.... three....AWWWWW!!!! :D :D :D

I don't dispute your point about people going a few MPH over; towns like Depew, on the other hand, give out tickets for such heinous violations of the Law. Now onto the fun...

That Audi Sport Quattro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_Quattro#The_Audi_Sport_Quattro)in the left video was a Group B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_B) rally car...those were too hot for the sport, lots and lots of people got killed, so that particular formula was banned. On a superspecial stage in Portugal, they ran the B-Group cars on the same racetrack they ran the (Formula One) Portuguese Grand Prix. The fastest of these on that stage- again, that particular Audi- would have qualified 7th for the Grand Prix. Considering this is a car w/doors, fenders, a windshield, and two seats, that feat is nothing short of terrifying.


Colin McRae is the guy in the second video beating up on his Ford Focus.

[Surfing USA]

That Audi Sport Quattro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_Quattro#The_Audi_Sport_Quattro)in the left video was a Group B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_B) rally car...those were too hot for the sport, lots and lots of people got killed, so that particular formula was banned. On a superspecial stage in Portugal, they ran the B-Group cars on the same racetrack they ran the (Formula One) Portuguese Grand Prix. The fastest of these on that stage- again, that particular Audi- would have qualified 7th for the Grand Prix. Considering this is a car w/doors, fenders, a windshield, and two seats, that feat is nothing short of terrifying.


Colin McRae is the guy in the second video beating up on his Ford Focus.When you say, "lots and lots of people got killed," may I assume you're referring to spectators? I can't imagine standing that close to the track. I learned that lesson, (not to stand so close to a racetrack), 25-years-ago on Ohio Street in the City of Buffalo. Incase you're not familiar of what I'm referring to, Ohio Street was a meeting place back then for amateur drag racers, usually on Friday & Saturday evenings. I remember leaning up against the driver's side of my car , between the car and the road awaiting the next race. A racing cycle lined-up next to a Corvette with a blower. upon being flagged the race began. Next thing I knew, the Corvette was fishtailing right towards me! Obviously he never considered that his engine was too powerful for his traction system. The Vette missed me by literally six inches or less! From that point on, I stood on the opposite side of my vehicle.

The Buffalo Police would make appearances several times each evening, but we'd just keep returning ten minutes later and the races would be back on. then the city started installing speed bumps, only to be destroyed by the die hard amateur racers. What a great time it was! eventually the Buffalo Police cracked down real hard, and that was the end of Ohio Street racing.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i206/Cindy_and_Greg/Animations/02010611.gif

[colossus27]

[B][COLOR="Blue"]When you say, "lots and lots of people got killed," may I assume you're referring to spectators? I can't imagine standing that close to the track.

Spectators and drivers too.

SCCA runs a Pro Rally in Wellsboro, PA- about a 1/2 hour south of Corning- and it's just about impossible to watch w/out getting up close. Smart people stand on the inside of the corner...idiots that stand on the track are typically bounced by the burly locals in the FD or wrecking trucks.

At the Canadian Grand Prix, you can also get close, as this shows. The camera is not wearing a telephoto...but the lens is stuck through one layer of fencing- you only see the other one. By this point, the car is doing about 80MPH in 2nd gear, and will accelerate to around 140MPH before the next turn.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o107/colossus_27/GPCAN.jpg

[Surfing USA]

Originally Posted by colossus27
At the Canadian Grand Prix, you can also get close, as this shows. The camera is not wearing a telephoto...but the lens is stuck through one layer of fencing- you only see the other one. By this point, the car is doing about 80MPH in 2nd gear, and will accelerate to around 140MPH before the next turn.
At speeds such as that, a chain-link fence will do little to save the nearby spectators, contrary to what they may believe.

[colossus27]

At speeds such as that, a chain-link fence will do little to save the nearby spectators, contrary to what they may believe.

There's two layers of chain-link, a first layer of Armco, and the fence you didn't see had 3 layers of armco. It'll stop the cars, I've seen it firsthand.

[Northshore]

Well for all those who have ever got a speeding ticket you know that they almost always will reduce it. Why is that?

Well because they count on that money for their towns bills. Yes this is true. When setting out to do their town budgets they add this money in when figuring your taxes.

So this asks a few good questions:

1) Is this right and legal?
The Judge themselves is making out on this by not paying as high of taxes as he/she would. Thus they are profiting from this arragement. The question then is is this legal since they stand to profit.

I can't imagine that the amount taken in through traffic enforcement would lower the taxes by more than $50 a year. Somehow I don't see the amount in question as a big motivator for the judiciary to base their decisions on.

2) Is there really a deterant or do they want you to speed?
We all know that they are making out on reducing the ticket to a parking ticket. So what would happen if we all of a sudden stopped speeding? The toens would all have to raise the taxes on a alarming scale. So is this a deterant. NO! In all reality they DON'T want you to stop.


Well, we all stopped driving above .10% alcohol levels in our blood, just like MADD wanted. Now it's .08%, and they are asking for .04%.

You probably have a point.

4) Do the driving schools really work?
Uh no they don't. Not on any major scale. All they do is place more money into people's pockets. Go to a class sometime and see how many pople they have and what they make. $25 per person. Last class I was in had over 30 people.

Sure they work. They make a bunch of Republican contributors a load of cash at the expense of those who can least afford it. Have you ever seen a rich person at traffic school? If you can afford a lawyer in 95% of NYS, your ticket is getting dismissed, period.

Why not donate the money?
Well GREED! The towns/villages are just as greedy as the next individual and they are out for themselves. See question #1 and #2. This in itself by donating the money would only prove the towns are NOT out for the money and would go to help those in need. The NFL takes it's fines from it's players and matches them and ten

Well, to some extent, bad driving costs towns and cities. The fines help to make up for it, especially when the charge is reduced to a non moving violation and the town gets to keep all the fine, instead of the 20 or so bucks they get when it's a moving violation (the rest goes to the DMV).

4) WALES TOWN COURT : Is there no end to the GREED?
On a personal side note I have got tickets over the years in different towns. Some are better then other. Wlaes and the Wales Town Judge are outright disgusting in their/his actions. There comes a time in a lot of people's lives where they are hurting an almost/if not broke. I personally explained my situation of receiving no child support, no job, having multiple kids and just having gone on food stamps. At times like these there is no reason to kick someone anymore while they are down. Well this Judge didn't seem to care. He obviously didn't want higher taxes and it didn't matter if a couple of kids were clothed or ate. DISGUSTING! There should be people there for you in times of need not making things worse.

On the other side years and years ago I received a ticket in Hamburg Town. At the time was disabled and had not got any money yet. The Judge there asked how much I had in my wallet, I told him and let him know I had no gas in my car and he fined me $25! He left me with money to get some gas too. We need more Judges like this.

SHAME ON YOU WALES AND YOUR JUDGE ! ! ! !



So your big complaint is that you broke the law, got caught and had to pay the normal fine. You had the money to break the law though.





I have no problem with town courts doing whatever they can to divert traffic fines to local use instead of to the state. A simple speeding ticket can cost thousands these days. The fine, insurance rate increases (nearly all radar and laser traffic enforcement devices are bought and paid for with grants from the insurance companies) and the DMV "responsibility fee structure" are nothing short of draconian. If there was any semblance of fairness in enforcement I might have another opinion, but I can tell you that for every car I pass while driving the speed limit, I get passed by 25 and get flipped off, tailgated, horned, etc by 10. I would happily pay $250 for a "parking violation" instead of a $100 speeding ticket (and the $1,200 worth of insurance increases).

[colossus27]

Sure they work. They make a bunch of Republican contributors a load of cash at the expense of those who can least afford it. Have you ever seen a rich person at traffic school? If you can afford a lawyer in 95% of NYS, your ticket is getting dismissed, period.

I know two seperate lawyers that have insisted you will never get out of a ticket unless it's a technicality. Nine times I've sat in traffic court and never once have I seen a speeding ticket dismissed outright unless the cop didn't show or made a mistake. Neither option requires an attorney. I admit this is anecdote, but I'd gladly like to see some statistics on this.

Why would a person intelligent/savant enough to be successful also be stupid enough to spend $450+ on an attorney- and still get stuck w/the speeding fines and insurance hit- instead of paying a parking fine (what, $80?) and $40 more for parking school? That I can't fathom, which is why I disagree with this point.

Well, to some extent, bad driving costs towns and cities. The fines help to make up for it, especially when the charge is reduced to a non moving violation and the town gets to keep all the fine, instead of the 20 or so bucks they get when it's a moving violation (the rest goes to the DMV).

How does bad driving cost a town or city? Do the taxpayers of Depew lose money when some waterhead in an all-season-shod SUV goes 5MPH on Transit RD during light snowfall?

I have no problem with town courts doing whatever they can to divert traffic fines to local use instead of to the state.

I don't have a problem with that- I've a problem when it's deliberately done to generate revenue. This vapid little 'crackdowns' on speeding are a good example- oh, it's Labor Day weekend, they'll be checking for speeders...

I guess that's a pretty glaring admission of two things-

1. Their usual enforcement sucks, and extra efforts are required for compliance

2. They need money, or insurance companies are making campaign donations

If there was any semblance of fairness in enforcement I might have another opinion, but I can tell you that for every car I pass while driving the speed limit, I get passed by 25 and get flipped off, tailgated, horned, etc by 10. I would happily pay $250 for a "parking violation" instead of a $100 speeding ticket (and the $1,200 worth of insurance increases).

Nobody will argue the point that it's unfairly enforced- and since the courts rubber-stamp speeding tickets, the cops are actually interpreting the law. Which, last time I checked, isn't their legal responsibility. But the courts don't care, since they make money doing so.

[Northshore]

I would ask unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks.

Speeding tickets don't get dismissed, they get changed into local law violations, like excessive noise or illegal parking. Now if your ticket is in the City of Buffalo you are basically screwed, as the traffic court is run by the DMV directly, and only a factual error will help you (it won't get reduced).

As far as needing or not needing a lawyer, my personal situation is such that legal representation for minor matters doesn't cost me anyting, so of course, I go with a lawyer. I have gone without one in the past, and I found the court and prosecutor to be very accomadating with regards to reduction of charges.

[farmall806]

If a Local Court gets in a year's time, for example $100,000 in total collected Court fines paid to it from defendants, and say it costs only $40,000 to run the Court for the year. Who gets the other $60,000.00 ? Does it go into the Town's General Fund ?

[houdini]

Does it go into the Town's General Fund ?

How do you think Elma paid for the new town hall? Last time I was in there on a traffic violation, I looked at the financial statement. The year I looked at showed over $180,000 in income from tickets. Do the math and you'll know why 400 from mile marker 5 to marker 14 (town limits on 400) was listed in the National Speed Trap Registry! (And why there were always cops parked there).
For the second time I got a speeding ticket, I was pleaded out as a moving violation as I'd already gone to "school". The first time, it was reduced to a parking ticket.The trick, as the local sheriff told me when he gave me the ticket, was to ask for a trial as then you were offered a plea deal. It's really a travesty.
I had the same experience in East Aurora - a reduction to a parking violation.