Attack on Social Security by Illegals

[Mr. Lackawanna]

Return of the Great Social Security Giveaway by Rep. Ron Paul


Return of the Great Social Security Giveaway
by Rep. Ron Paul, MD
by Rep. Ron Paul, MD

Last year around this time I wrote about a serious threat to Social
Security that was moving ever closer – a threat so great that it
could truly break the bank of our already dangerously fragile Social
Security system. The threat is the ongoing "totalization"
negotiations between the US and Mexican governments. An agreement on
"totalization" would make hundreds of thousands of Mexican citizens
eligible for American Social Security. Press reports just last month
reminded us that these talks are continuing and will likely be
completed this year.

As I wrote last year, under such a "totalization" agreement, even if
a Mexican citizen did not work in the United States long enough to
qualify for Social Security, the number of years worked in Mexico
would be added to bring up the total and thus make the Mexican
worker eligible for cash transfers from the United States. To
qualify for American Social Security, a Mexican citizen would need
to work in the US as short as just 18 months!

Totalization is nothing new. The first such agreements were made in
the late 1970s between the United States and several foreign
governments to help American citizens who were sent abroad by their
companies. From there we have come, nearly 30 years later, to the
point where an estimated 160,000 Mexican citizens would be eligible
for US Social Security in the next five years.

Ultimately, the bill for Mexicans working legally in the US could
reach one billion dollars by 2050, when the estimated Mexican
beneficiaries could reach 300,000. Worse still, an estimated five
million Mexicans working illegally in the United States could be
eligible for the program. According to press reports, a provision in
the Social Security Act allows illegal immigrants to receive Social
Security benefits if the United States and another country have a
totalization agreement.

:mad: Those in favor of sending US Social Security benefits to Mexican
citizens argue that the crushing poverty in Mexico demands some form
of US assistance to that country's aged.:mad:

January 6, 2004
Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.
Ron Paul Archives



The above article shows that the Liberals want to save the world by giving our social security funds to illegal Mexican workers. The Liberals feel that we should now be responsible for the "poor and old people in Mexico"

To qualify for American Social Security, a illegal Mexican citizen would need
to work in the United States just 18 months! How about that, a real US citizen will need to work 10 years to qualify for Social Security.

With the additional financial drain on Social Security one wonders where the funds will come from to pay for this plan. Maybe the government will lower the benefits that will be paid out or the fund will just go bankrupt.

[colossus27]

To qualify for American Social Security, a illegal Mexican citizen would need
to work in the United States just 18 months! How about that, a real US citizen will need to work 10 years to qualify for Social Security.

That's funny. Where's his outrage over how states like NY administer socialized medicine?

[run4it]

"liberals" hmm?

So these talks have been ongoing...and who has been in charge of both the legislative and executive branches of government for 6 years? Better get some more fingers to point.

Lacky, I know that you like Ron Paul a lot...but you have to admit that a lot of his stuff is whacko. Not that I'm saying this is totally incorrect, but have you read any other information or viewpoints about this subject?

[Mr. Lackawanna]

"liberals" hmm?

So these talks have been ongoing...and who has been in charge of both the legislative and executive branches of government for 6 years? Better get some more fingers to point.

Lacky, I know that you like Ron Paul a lot...but you have to admit that a lot of his stuff is whacko. Not that I'm saying this is totally incorrect, but have you read any other information or viewpoints about this subject?


No. Ron Paul was the only information I looked at. I just need some proof that I was not making this story up. What brought my attention to this subject. It was a report on TV a cable news station (not Fox) last night. It was also reported that the Mexican government is giving GPS units to the illegal Mexicans entering the Unites States so they wound not get lost while trying to sneak into the United States.

A Liberal can be any Democratic or Republican politician who likes to transfer the additional wealth from those that earned it to those that haven't earned it.

[run4it]

I'd greatly hesitate to take anything Ron Paul says as "proof", other than proof of lunacy.

In any case, let's be honest here for a minute:
No one has suggested that illegal immigrants should get social security. What current law allows is that any former illegal immigrant who later becomes a legal citizen gets credit for social security taxes paid while under illegal status. Once again, the worker must gain legal status before anything is paid out. So "giving social security benefits to illegals" is misleading, if not false.

By the way, did you know that illegals contribute about $7Billion per year in social security taxes? (remember, those who remain illegal never get this back).

As for GPS systems for illegal immigrants: It's not the Mexican Government. It's the government of one Mexican state. I've seen estimates of up to 2000 deaths a year of illegals trying to cross the desert. The GPS is for them to activiate if they are stranded and dying, that's it. It may be misguided, and while you may not have too much sympathy for illegal immigrants, there at least is a good intention behind it (that intention being simply saving lives). Oh, and yes, they would be deported once they were found...

[Mr. Lackawanna]

I'd greatly hesitate to take anything Ron Paul says as "proof", other than proof of lunacy.

In any case, let's be honest here for a minute:
No one has suggested that illegal immigrants should get social security. What current law allows is that any former illegal immigrant who later becomes a legal citizen gets credit for social security taxes paid while under illegal status. Once again, the worker must gain legal status before anything is paid out. So "giving social security benefits to illegals" is misleading, if not false.

By the way, did you know that illegals contribute about $7Billion per year in social security taxes? (remember, those who remain illegal never get this back).

As for GPS systems for illegal immigrants: It's not the Mexican Government. It's the government of one Mexican state. I've seen estimates of up to 2000 deaths a year of illegals trying to cross the desert. The GPS is for them to activiate if they are stranded and dying, that's it. It may be misguided, and while you may not have too much sympathy for illegal immigrants, there at least is a good intention behind it (that intention being simply saving lives). Oh, and yes, they would be deported once they were found...




In June, 2004, President Bush's Social Security Administration negotiated a deal with Mexico named "Totalization", to allow Mexicans who work for a period of time (legally or illegally) in the United States to collect money from the U.S. Social Security system when they retire in Mexico.

So much that they must be legal to collect Social Security.


Why should the illegals Mexicans get there monies back. They were lying when they applied for a social security card.

Lets not nitpick over a Mexican Sate Government or the Central Government of Mexico. It's still an exodus of Mexicans illegals to to the United States. It all depends on what you think the GPSS are used for. You have your spin and I have mine. I think the GPS units are used to make sure the illegal Mexicans don't come back to Mexico.

[run4it]

From the Social Security Administration:

This is not the case. The agreements, moreover, do not change the basic coverage provisions of the participating countries' Social Security laws--such as those that define covered earnings or work

So, no...unless the person is recognized as a legal worker in the U.S., they will never be elegible for social security benefits.

What this agreement does is protect workers from either country working in the other from having to pay social security taxes in both their home and resident country (dual taxation). While there is room for abuse (as there is in almost any system) the fact that the worker HAS TO BE LEGAL does not change.

And not all GPS systems provide maps, Lacky. My phone has one...all it does is locate me (or my phone actually) should I be reported lost. That's pretty much what the state is giving to those who are crossing the border.

[run4it]

By the way, Paul's letter notes that this could cost $1billion by 2050. Considering that we're now pulling in $7billion per year in social security taxes from illegals (which will undoubtedly go up with minimum wage increasing), I'd say that, even under Paul's worst estimate, the (conservatively) $344billion we'll bring in will be well worth the $1billion we'll pay out...

[WestSideJohn]

In June, 2004, President Bush's Social Security Administration negotiated a deal with Mexico named "Totalization", to allow Mexicans who work for a period of time (legally or illegally) in the United States to collect money from the U.S. Social Security system when they retire in Mexico.And you blame "the Liberals?"

[run4it]

And you blame "the Liberals?"
He already explained that. Apparently, the President is a liberal...

[Goodolefriend]

Those in favor of allowing corrupt and imprisoned congressional members to gain pensions paid for by the tax payer, say Aye.



The problem with social security isn't the Liberals subsidizing of mexican workers but OUR HUGE aging population and our extremely low tax rate. In comparison the mexican migrants that do reap the benefits are only a drop in the bucket to the flood of the aging class and Americans already on assistence. The blame should be put on the Republicans for refusing to raise taxes in congress over the last 12 years to lower the hurt on the Social Security system. As a result there is already forecasts from economists that our Children will be feeling the hurt from higher taxes to take care for all the retirees.

The Liberals feel that we should now be responsible for the "poor and old people in Mexico"

I don't think so. I think the Liberals are looking after the best interest of the nation. Considering they have only really been in congressional power for about 8 hours, I don't think anyone should really be judging what they are responsible for. We haven't even seen what they will put foreword on the first 100 hours yet!
However, they are looking like they are looking after the best interest of the nation. They've made congress transparent by putting foreword a bill to drastically lower the the power of lobbeying and gifts that can be recieved. How long have the Republicans been riding the Lobby Gravy Train?
Looks like they are trying to put something together to raise minimum wage to 7.50 an hour which would be excellent for the working poor.


To qualify for American Social Security, a illegal Mexican citizen would need
to work in the United States just 18 months! How about that, a real US citizen will need to work 10 years to qualify for Social Security.

Where do you get this from? Not that it matters, I think it's an excellent Idea! It forces the Illegals to PAY INTO THE SYSTEM. Which means that Jose and Juan will be supporting your Mommy or yourself who is on medicaid. What you pay into the system isn't what you reap Lack. When you pay into social security you're paying for everyone who is already collecting their SS cheques.


With the additional financial drain on Social Security one wonders where the funds will come from to pay for this plan.

Yea, the Drain on the system from the 70+ Million Americans of the Baby Boom who are retiring in the next 10-15 years and collecting SS from the system.

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/2001/cb01cn184.html
http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/p20-546.pdf


Maybe the government will lower the benefits that will be paid out or the fund will just go bankrupt.

OR! They can increase immigration into this country to support the aging population.

[Mr. Lackawanna]

As heard on Cable news tonight (not Fox) the southern states that border Mexico are financially feeling the pinch for supporting the illegal Aliens.

[Goodolefriend]

As heard on Cable news tonight (not Fox) the southern states that border Mexico are financially feeling the pinch for supporting the illegal Aliens.


Ya... I'd like to take your word for it... but there is SO many variables in the equation for the impact of illegal immigrants that it's hard to really tell whether it is beneficial or parasitic.

What I can tell you for sure though is that the 70 million baby boomers retiring has a far greater impact on the social security burden then 6 million WORKING illegals will ever have.

[tomac]

A Liberal can be any Democratic or Republican politician who likes to transfer the additional wealth from those that earned it to those that haven't earned it.

Then you must consider W(orthless) and his NeoCon buddies to be Liberals!
They want to transfer money from the wallets of those who earned it (me) to those that didn't (the CEOs and FEOs of the largest corporations).
This country will be better off when that little Putz is History.

:mad:

[WNYresident]

Ya... I'd like to take your word for it... but there is SO many variables in the equation for the impact of illegal immigrants that it's hard to really tell whether it is beneficial or parasitic.

What I can tell you for sure though is that the 70 million baby boomers retiring has a far greater impact on the social security burden then 6 million WORKING illegals will ever have.

Maybe not.

The 6 million young US citizens adults of the 70 million retirees would be working versus the immigrants from mexico.

People tend to forget that the United States citizens should always come first.

Wouldn't anyone wanting to help another country at the cost of US citizens be considered a traitor?

[biker]

Why should the illegals Mexicans get there monies back. They were lying when they applied for a social security card.

Mr. L:

Thanks for the comic relief on a drab and gloomy day.

You think they actually apply for SS #s. What a hoot. I laughed so hard I fell off my chair.

Twice.

Thanks again.

[biker]

I think the Liberals are looking after the best interest of the nation. Considering they have only really been in congressional power for about 8 hours, I don't think anyone should really be judging what they are responsible for. We haven't even seen what they will put foreword on the first 100 hours yet!

Apparently, you didn't get the memo.

The House Dems have already changed their own rules (which don't need the Presidential okey-dokey) WRT tax increases.

The Dems only want a majority to start stealing more from you, instead of the 2/3s those nasty Repubs have had in place for 12 years.

Given your fondness for higher taxes, you're prolly creaming your shorts as you read this.

[biker]

What I can tell you for sure though is that the 70 million baby boomers retiring has a far greater impact on the social security burden then 6 million WORKING illegals will ever have.

That 70 million sure bugs you. How about the hundreds of billions they've paid into Soc Sec since the sixties? Why don't you mention that? Because, like all Stalinists, you believe all resources belong to the gov in the first place?

And what socialist pipe dream did you dig up "6 million illegals"? The estimates that have been used for the past two years are 12 to 15 million. Although over the past two years, a few million more have probably snuck into the US.

When you start to blatantly lie, try another Stalinist technique: start your sentence with "As is well known....".

[biker]

Maybe not.

The 6 million young US citizens adults of the 70 million retirees would be working versus the immigrants from mexico.

People tend to forget that the United States citizens should always come first.

Wouldn't anyone wanting to help another country at the cost of US citizens be considered a traitor?

Rez:

I wish we could rate/recommend posts. I'd give this one 85 stars!

One thing though: it's worse than you think. Goodole is spewing bad stats. The number of illegals (from Mexico alone) in this country are estimated to be 12 to 15 million.

And what a topsy-turvy world we live in. Unionites on SU tell us to "stop picking on the little brown guys." And these overpaid lumpkins are most at risk from the cheap labor competition.

While it's conservatives who want the border sealed, so as to control immigration.

[Goodolefriend]

[WNYresident]Maybe not.

The 6 million young US citizens adults of the 70 million retirees would be working versus the immigrants from mexico.

What are you yapping about now WNYresident? Who's going to look after these 70 million retiring! Do you know anything about Social Security? You go and take a look on how it works then you can add in some patriotic phrases like, "weeellll... I don't know about this, but I think we should support US citizens first"

People tend to forget that the United States citizens should always come first.

That's right! They should come first, and in order for them to come first we need someone to support these 70 Million that are retiring. No matter how you look at it we're going to need to increase immigrant. We can't be closing off our borders and hoping the problem goes away. The workforce that is coming up from behind the baby boom is not going to be able to sustain them WITHOUT RAISING TAXES! Your Kids will be burdened with some heavy taxes to cover your medicaid, just like how you right now are supporting all the retiree's on SS.

Wouldn't anyone wanting to help another country at the cost of US citizens be considered a traitor?

Yes, Sir! It sure would! But how in the world are we helping another country out when these migrant immigrants are working in the United States and paying into Social Security? IN FACT they are supporting our retired community as much as any other citizen at their pay bracket. Yes, it may be easy for employers to hire illegals But its a lot harder for these employers to get around workers paying into Social security and workers benefits.
Like I was saying, it's incredibly hard to find out their actual impact. Yes! Some use the social programs, that's a fact! But they also support the local economy (hard to judge the impact, unfortunately citizenship isn't tattooed on our foreheads). You know, while they are here they are also producing a product and buying goods and services that require sales tax, this is also a fact! (You cannot live without buying goods or services) They are also paying into the system when they are working.

These are just a FEW of the Variables in the equation of their economic effect. I don't really think that any study that anyone has shown so far has been adequate. Our own Intelligence agency doesn't have a reasonable estimate of how many workers are here. They can only judge by the numbers they have caught and hospital records.

[WestSideJohn]

Wouldn't anyone wanting to help another country at the cost of US citizens be considered a traitor?*cough* Iraq *cough*

[Goodolefriend]

That 70 million sure bugs you. How about the hundreds of billions they've paid into Soc Sec since the sixties? Why don't you mention that? Because, like all Stalinists, you believe all resources belong to the gov in the first place?

That 70 million doesn't bug me except for lame a$$es in that group, like yourself. Sure, those 70 million have paid alot into the system, however if you bothered not to be an idiot those 70 Million are going to be living alot longer than what they have put into the system due to the nation average. Maybe next time before you start using your little rodent digits to try and type you would take a look at any figure released from the Federal Trust or independent think tanks. If they are saying they are going to be coming up short I would probably believe them. It's kind of their job to manage the countries Social Security and the Federal Trust. Why do you think they have started to try and bring in privatization?

Testimony of
MICHAEL TANNER
Director of Health and Welfare Studies,
Cato Institute

before the

SENATE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

September 24, 1996


"Currently, Social Security taxes bring in more revenue than the system pays out in benefits. The surplus theoretically accumulates in the Social Security Trust Fund. However, the situation will reverse as early as 2012. Social Security will begin paying out more in benefits than it collects in revenues. To continue meeting its obligations, it will have to begin drawing on the surplus in the Trust Fund. However, at that point, we will discover that the Social Security Trust Fund is really little more than a polite fiction."

Jeeze! Micheal! Tell me more this is some interesting Sh*t!

"[B]The government will have to raise taxes to make good on the bonds to continue paying promised benefits. Either way, the government can only pay benefits by raising taxes--or borrowing and running bigger deficits. Even if Congress can find a way to redeem the bonds, the Trust Fund surplus will be completely exhausted by 2029. At that point, Social Security will have to rely solely on revenue from the payroll tax. But such revenues will not be sufficient to pay all promised benefits. If the government is going to make good on all the promised benefits under both Social Security and Medicare, payroll taxes will have to be increased to between 28 and 40 percent. "

Wow! What you're telling me is that SS will be bankrupt!

"Today's benefits to the old are paid by today's taxes from the young. Tomorrow's benefits to today's young are to be paid by tomorrow's taxes from tomorrow's young."

Please! Tell me more!

"Life expectancy is increasing, while birth rates are declining. As recently as 1950, there were 16 workers for every Social Security beneficiary.

Today there are only 3.3. By 2030, there will be fewer than two."

My goodness!

There is a better alternative.

Social Security should be "privatized," allowing people the freedom to invest their Social Security taxes in financial assets such as stocks and bonds.

Hmm... They've only STARTED to put this into Action Last Year! Sadly, that's the problem with government; it works slow no matter who's in power.

http://www.cato.org/testimony/ct-mt092496.html

http://www.clomedia.com/content/templates/clo_article.asp?articleid=976&zoneid=24
http://ideas.repec.org/p/wpa/wuwpma/9711010.html









And what socialist pipe dream did you dig up "6 million illegals"? The estimates that have been used for the past two years are 12 to 15 million. Although over the past two years, a few million more have probably snuck into the US.

Looks like I was using some old data.

Well, the Center of Immigrantion studies states that there are about 8 million in the country as of 2003. They also state that there is a net increase of about 500,000 which is short of a million. It brings us to around 10 Million for a conservative estimate. Soo... 12 to 15 is alittle high... but sure... I'll take it.
It doesn't really change their impact when we're looking at all the variables.

http://www.cis.org/topics/illegalimmigration.html



When you start to blatantly lie, try another Stalinist technique: start your sentence with "As is well known....".


Biker, do you even know what "stalinist" means? Can you define it in your own words for the readers of this thread? I think we would all love to find out what you think it means.

[biker]

That's right! They should come first, and in order for them to come first we need someone to support these 70 Million that are retiring. No matter how you look at it we're going to need to increase immigrant. We can't be closing off our borders and hoping the problem goes away. The workforce that is coming up from behind the baby boom is not going to be able to sustain them WITHOUT RAISING TAXES! Your Kids will be burdened with some heavy taxes to cover your medicaid, just like how you right now are supporting all the retiree's on SS.

The same prescription for cultural disaster that the spineless, castrated Europeans have opted for. Rather than working harder themselves to pay for the welfare state they can't do without but can't afford, they are importing North Africans and Turks by the boatload to do the menial work the Sissy Europeans are too lazy to do. And to pay the taxes to support the white Europeans' welfare benefits.

The Europeans know what is happening, they bemoan what is happening, but would rather live lives of ease than work to support themselves. Even if it means Western Europe will soon be meeting the fate of the formerly Christian Middle East: over-run by the bloodthirsty culture. This time, though, Mohammed will win by the maternity ward instead of the scimitar.

America is not Europe, however. The generations (recheck your geneological calendar, Socialolefriend) following the boomers are made of sterner stuff than the Beach Boy wimps.

[biker]

And what socialist pipe dream did you dig up "6 million illegals"? The estimates that have been used for the past two years are 12 to 15 million. Although over the past two years, a few million more have probably snuck into the US.

Looks like I was using some old data.

No an admitted liar, with the lamest excuse for not seeing the hundreds of news broadcast on dozens of stations using the 12 to 15 million figure for the past two years.

You must be a charter graduate of the "Wrona School of Blatant Lies", with a special major in numerate obfuscation.

[biker]

That 70 million doesn't bug me except for lame a$$es in that group, like yourself. Sure, those 70 million have paid alot into the system, however if you bothered not to be an idiot those 70 Million are going to be living alot longer than what they have put into the system due to the nation average.

So what if those 70 million paid into the Social Security system all their lives. I get a great yuck every year when I get my annual Soc Sec benefit statement, touting the bennies I'm gonna get from Soc Sec:

If I live that long (a simple insurance policy would pay my heirs much more);
If there is any money left;
If they don't start means-testing it;
If they don't raid the Social Security for more welfare benefits, like Medicare.

It's got to really PO statists like you to think that the State may have to pay promised benefits to undeserving citizens. Like those who don't vote the right way. Or those who regularly go to Church (ignorant peasants). Or those who saved something on their own for retirement.

So tell me, Field Marshal Gutfreund, have you come up with a Final Solution to thin out the ranks of that 70 million burden?

[biker]

those 70 Million are going to be living alot longer than what they have put into the system due to the nation average.

Can you redraft this nonsense into something intelligible?

Spend less time on posting quantity and more on quality.

[biker]

Maybe next time before you start using your little rodent digits to try and type you would take a look at any figure released from the Federal Trust or independent think tanks. If they are saying they are going to be coming up short I would probably believe them. It's kind of their job to manage the countries Social Security and the Federal Trust.

Why would I care about anything these people have to say?

These are the morons who have "managed" Social Security so that the average conscripted participant earns less than 1% on his confiscated contributions. To say nothing of the negative returns enjoyed by those mega, mega rich people earning more than $60k per year.

The only reason you pretend to listen to them is that they almost all call for higher taxes.

The very elixir of life for statists like you.

[Goodolefriend]

[QUOTE=biker]Apparently, you didn't get the memo.

The House Dems have already changed their own rules (which don't need the Presidential okey-dokey) WRT tax increases.

Well, if you haven't got a calculator handy Red Numbers in the National Debt = Bad. Seems we've got a record big one! It leads to inflation.. try and say it with me "In-Flay-shion".

The Dems only want a majority to start stealing more from you, instead of the 2/3s those nasty Repubs have had in place for 12 years.

Well, considering they have stated they are raising taxes on the upper class I don't think you have anything to worry about here biker. I'm sure your 35,000 a year (liberal estimate) does not put you in that tax bracket just yet big guy. The democrats don't like to take pennies from your ciggy allowance.

Given your fondness for higher taxes, you're prolly creaming your shorts as you read this.

Can you name anyone who really likes taxes? However, there is something that comes with adulthood. It's called maturity, and sometimes we have to show it when it comes to government spending (Republicans haven't shown it with their record high debt). Sometimes to be an adult we have to do the responsible thing and pay into the governmental system. Any reasonable American understands that they have a duty to pay taxes to support the livelihood of their Nation and State! Maybe it is my background, but when I pay into the system I feel it is a privilege to pay higher taxes due to my higher income. It's what all True Patriotic Americans do; are you patriotic?

Nah...you still think patriotism is a 20 dollar US FLAG produced in china.

[biker]

You should take to heart the admonition of that child of the Enlightenment, Blaise Pascal: "I apologize for the length of this letter, but I did not have the time to make it shorter."

With a little more thought, Goodolefriend, you can easily communicate your ineptitude in a much briefer fashion.

And the added bonus is that shorter missives will make you appear to be less stupid.

Ah, but appearances can be deceiving, can't they?

[Goodolefriend]

[biker]Why would I care about anything these people have to say?

Perhaps because they are incharge of your SS and will determine how much of a pay out you will recieve when you retire.



These are the morons who have "managed" Social Security so that the average conscripted participant earns less than 1% on his confiscated contributions. To say nothing of the negative returns enjoyed by those mega, mega rich people earning more than $60k per year.

Ya... So what's your solution again? Right, playing the lame blame game and putting nothing on the table to refute their EVIDENCE.




The only reason you pretend to listen to them is that they almost all call for higher taxes.

You Idiot! There are more solutions than higher taxes.
Upping Immigration is a start. Europe and Canada has forecasted the problem for sometime and have increased immigration so that their baby boomers won't be begging.
This LOWERS THE NEED TO RAISE TAXES!
Hmm... Maybe that's why Prez Bush hasn't really done anything about the "12-15 million" illegals in this country and has given them lee way to get citizenship and register.


The very elixir of life for statists like you.

[biker]

[QUOTE=biker]Apparently, you didn't get the memo.

Can you name anyone who really likes taxes? However, there is something that comes with adulthood. It's called maturity, and sometimes we have to show it when it comes to government spending (Republicans haven't shown it with their record high debt). Sometimes to be an adult we have to do the responsible thing and pay into the governmental system. Any reasonable American understands that they have a duty to pay taxes to support the livelihood of their Nation and State! Maybe it is my background, but when I pay into the system I feel it is a privilege to pay higher taxes due to my higher income. It's what all True Patriotic Americans do; are you patriotic?

First, learn the simple mechanics on how to do a quote. Your ineptitude is annoying and detracts from the reader's ability to hone in on the vacuousness of your ideas.

Second, I note that you don't dispute the actions of the Dems to pave the way for quick tax increases. Which will not--and never have---hit only "the rich".

Third, the word for those Americans who feel swell about paying taxes does indeed begin with a "p". But it's patsy, not patriot.

The only people who overlook the waste in a $2.7 trillion spending plan are those parasites who are net takers from it, not payers.

You sound like one of those parasites.

[biker]

[biker]Why would I care about anything these people have to say?

Perhaps because they are incharge of your SS and will determine how much of a pay out you will recieve when you retire.

You really think SS bureacrats will determine what my benefits will be decades from now? You think that's how the world works.

Rez----quick. We need minimum age limits in order to post on SU. Eight year olds should not be allowed to post.


Upping Immigration is a start. Europe and Canada has forecasted the problem for sometime and have increased immigration so that their baby boomers won't be begging.

You apparently are unable or unwilling to acknowledge the cultural timebomb that Europe's immigration policies have become. I refer you to the recent cover story in The Weekly Standard on Spanish immigration policy and its effects on Spain and the rest of Europe.

Canada has managed immigration better. They have a program whereby people with significant wealth who are willing to invest it in Canada are moved right to the head of the immigration line. Niagara=on-the-Lake is the beneficiary of this. Are you aware of this program. Do you know the story of NOTL?

Does your appreciation for the Canadian system mean that you are lobbying for the repeal of the Ted Kennedy immigration protocols? Do you even know what they are?

Since you are only 8, you've plenty of time to read up on both issues.

[Goodolefriend]

[biker]You should take to heart the admonition of that child of the Enlightenment, Blaise Pascal: "I apologize for the length of this letter, but I did not have the time to make it shorter."

With a little more thought, Goodolefriend, you can easily communicate your ineptitude in a much briefer fashion.

I find this interesting that this is coming from a person that I would judge as being barely able to read. It's called articulation! Maybe if you had taken an English class, those classes where you read books and learn how to write English in a proper demeanour, you would understand.


And the added bonus is that shorter missives will make you appear to be less stupid.

I find this but a lark that you are giving me advice when I'm sure you have trouble balancing your cheque book and are crippled with credit card debt. How can I take you seriously talking about the national debt and social security investment when you can’t manage your own finances?

[Timmy]

Goodoldfriend thinks immigration is the only way to handle SS debt

truth is that many illegal immigrants do not and cannot work legal jobs that require identity...and as such their wages are under the table...they pay little if any in federal or state taxes

Many dont accumulate money because they send it back to their host country. The result is that on paper they qualify for US poverty programs which are vast and diverse from housing to healthcare to public schools.

Therefore, illegals consume more resources than they contribute.

The Scandinavian countries, France and many other european countries have much high taxes and social programs, longer vacations, universal healthcare and a post WWII baby boom entering retirement too! Those european countries that have opened their borders have regretted it so immigration is NOT the only solution to the problem.

One solution would be to drop the value of the US dollar. It would increase our world competitiveness and our economy and our jobs and lower our trade deficit and lower the cost of all those SS bonds. Now thats not the only solution the Europeans have found others...but to repeatedly say that the US would economically collapse without illegal immigration and so we cannot control our borders is one sided lunacy

[Goodolefriend]

[biker]You really think SS bureacrats will determine what my benefits will be decades from now? You think that's how the world works.

No, your children will. :) They will be the ones paying for your Medicare and social insurance with their payroll taxes.
I don't think you understand how the system works yet. I'm going to break it down for you by giving you this simple site.

http://www.museworld.com/archives/001661.html

Hopefully the nice neat graphs will be able to help you understand. I know you're slow... so please... take your time.





You apparently are unable or unwilling to acknowledge the cultural timebomb that Europe's immigration policies have become. I refer you to the recent cover story in The Weekly Standard on Spanish immigration policy and its effects on Spain and the rest of Europe.

Sigh... I don't really have time to defend this claim. You really aren't worth my time. If you want to take a look at why there is a problem with the cultural time bomb I suggest you take a look at the French Arabs and their unemployment rate compared to the rest of the nation. As well as the French and Spanish Governments program for migrant housing. I don't think "the weekly standard" covered the French and Spanish immigration process.


Canada has managed immigration better. They have a program whereby people with significant wealth who are willing to invest it in Canada are moved right to the head of the immigration line. Niagara=on-the-Lake is the beneficiary of this. Are you aware of this program. Do you know the story of NOTL?

Ummm, Do you not realize that Immigration in many countries works this way? Immigration officials like applicants who are highly educated and who have job potential. It's a brilliant system and makes sure that there is competition for the immigration spaces available. If you know about demographics you would know, that on average, the higher an individual's education the higher their income. You might want to take notice of this when you look at the world.
However, there are benefits to both system. You need workers from all walks of life.

Does your appreciation for the Canadian system mean that you are lobbying for the repeal of the Ted Kennedy immigration protocols? Do you even know what they are?

You mean the Immigration act of 1965? I think you should be asking yourself that one Biker! You're the one that isn't in favor of Mexicans and non whites! You should be jumping all over teddy on this one Biker!



Since you are only 8, you've plenty of time to read up on both issues.[/QUOTE]

[biker]

I've been patient with you Goodole.

I've responded to your inflammatory posts, while you've said you don't have time to. I won't follow your example and suggest you don't have the mental capacity to.

I haven't tried to characterize your socio-economic status, but only your (misguided) "ideas". You, however, have tried to do that to me with appalling lack of accuracy.

And you stil
can't
get
the
mechanics
of
a
quote.

Since you're unwilling to make even a de minimus effort, I'm going to save us both a lot of time.

Off to ignore you go, to join WSJ.

[Goodolefriend]

[Timmy]Goodoldfriend thinks immigration is the only way to handle SS debt

Now, I didn't say it was the only solution. I have mentioned two that are alternatives. Tax increase on payroll, and immigration.


truth is that many illegal immigrants do not and cannot work legal jobs that require identity...and as such their wages are under the table...they pay little if any in federal or state taxes



Many dont accumulate money because they send it back to their host country. The result is that on paper they qualify for US poverty programs which are vast and diverse from housing to healthcare to public schools.



Therefore, illegals consume more resources than they contribute.

The Scandinavian countries, France and many other european countries have much high taxes and social programs, longer vacations, universal healthcare and a post WWII baby boom entering retirement too! Those european countries that have opened their borders have regretted it so immigration is NOT the only solution to the problem.

France is regretting it because of it's POOR immigration policy and UNEQUAL worker policies and STAGNANT ECONOMY, due to WORKERS RIGHTS (ei, job security for 2 years after being hired; 35 hour work week; drastic unemployment due to poor business incentives to set up shop in france).

One solution would be to drop the value of the US dollar. It would increase our world competitiveness and our economy and our jobs and lower our trade deficit and lower the cost of all those SS bonds.

Requires immigration, We do not have a large enough labor market to fill the demand from a drastic drop in the dollar. Also devaluing the currency can lead to inflation if it is not properly regulated. Which, inturn causes an increase in interest rate to control the inflation.However, it is an alternative that could be backed up with an increase in immigration and a slightly higher payroll tax.

Now thats not the only solution the Europeans have found others...but to repeatedly say that the US would economically collapse without illegal immigration and so we cannot control our borders is one sided lunacy

I have said nothing of this scale. I'm not making the debate that illegals are necessary for this nation.

[Goodolefriend]

[biker]I've been patient with you Goodole.

I have also been patient with you biker. Sadly, you just don't learn.



I've responded to your inflammatory posts, while you've said you don't have time to.

I've said that for one topic because I don't physically have the time to explain to you the flaws with France and Spain's immigration and economic policies. I could go on about that for weeks.

I won't follow your example and suggest you don't have the mental capacity to.

Trust me sweet heart. I have the mental capacity to understand. Would you like me to name of my degrees and titles? We can do it together! We can make it a hierarchical Elitist game!

I haven't tried to characterize your socio-economic status, but only your (misguided) "ideas". You, however, have tried to do that to me with appalling lack of accuracy.

I think I've struck a nerve.

And you stil
can't
get
the
mechanics
of
a
quote.

I understand the mechanics of quotation. I know where the quotation button is. You just don't understand that this is a very proper method for rebuttle. This way I can break it down very simple for ya, so you can relate to exactly what I'm trying to get into your peanut skull. Like a Teacher writing in the margins or your poorly assembled essay argument.

Since you're unwilling to make even a de minimus effort, I'm going to save us both a lot of time.
Off to ignore you go, to join WSJ.

You should ignore your credit card debt. It might go away too.. "chuckle!"

[Timmy]

Now, I didn't say it was the only solution. I have mentioned two that are alternatives. Tax increase on payroll, and immigration.

Requires immigration, We do not have a large enough labor market to fill the demand from a drastic drop in the dollar. Also devaluing the currency can lead to inflation if it is not properly regulated. Which, inturn causes an increase in interest rate to control the inflation.

I'm not making the debate that illegals are necessary for this nation.

You admit in your first sentence you are saying that illegal immigration and open borders are necessary to manage our economy.

Also ARE YOU REALLY FROM BUFFALO OR NIAGARA FALLS?
ARE YOU FROM ANYWHERE BETWEEN MILWAUKEE, ST LOUIS & WESTERN MASSACHUSETTS?

The US is filled with cities like Buffalo and Niagara Falls that were once filled with technology and industry...from the shovelers of grain to the highest caliber technology...and your going to tell Speakupwnyers and Buffalonians that we do not have enough people to fill all the job vacancies that would be created from a falling dollar. This alone says that you are a first class idiot to which Id pay to have you say that in an unemployment line or a food pantry.

Oh a fall in the dollar wouldnt even be necessary (though it could be managed) if we could stop other countries from manipulating their exchange rates and our own country from allowing tax exemptions to off-shore and outsource jobs and industries.

All of which is a huge reason I dont respond to your posts...your like Linda_D, you think you know everything when infact you know very little.

[Goodolefriend]

[Timmy]You admit in your first sentence you are saying that illegal immigration and open borders are necessary to manage our economy.

Don't put words in my mouth Timmy. I say that immigration is necessary for this nation. Plain and simple, if you debate that then you really shouldn't be in the debate. Isolationism has never worked for any economy or any nation. If you don't believe me; take a look at how the Ole Soviet Union worked out. Their downfall was from lack of trade and only a trickle for immigration. Your claim of unemployment in small town buffalo means Nothing in the realm of the whole nation.

Also ARE YOU REALLY FROM BUFFALO OR NIAGARA FALLS?

Yes, I am from Western New York. I would think that the majority of these posters are from the suburbs, including yourself.

ARE YOU FROM ANYWHERE BETWEEN MILWAUKEE, ST LOUIS & WESTERN MASSACHUSETTS?

Nope.

The US is filled with cities like Buffalo and Niagara Falls that were once filled with technology and industry...from the shovelers of grain to the highest caliber technology...and your going to tell Speakupwnyers and Buffalonians that we do not have enough people to fill all the job vacancies that would be created from a falling dollar. This alone says that you are a first class idiot to which Id pay to have you say that in an unemployment line or a food pantry.

Oh Please Timmy, don't pout to me about buffalo and small town US unemployment! Unemployment in this country sits at 4.5% which is one of the lowest in the World! Cutting off immigration would not solve your problem anyways, you idiot. New Ideas, different ways of business, unique patents, and jobs have been created because of immigrants and foreign investors! You are a child of American immigrants, you stooge! Buffalo's problem is the high business and residential taxes that have rocked this region and have pushed businesses away; it has LITTLE to do with FEDERAL IMMIGRATION POLICIES. You want to list a couple of things that the State or city has done to help bring business back other than the follied waterfront project? It is due to the POOR LITTERACY and EDUCATION of the Inner City and the crime that follows. What business executive in their right mind woud want to set up shop in Down Town Buffalo, which might I add, is an expensive sh*t hole? Have you even been down town other than to fill your belly with alittle "Chef's" lately? You shouldn't be looking at me for your problem, but the state and city legislate for not creating business incentives. Blame them for sitting on their ass, not the immigrants who are toiling to make a living and pursue the ideals of the "American dream".

Yes, Buffalo is on hard times. Why not instead of b*tchin about it we come up with solutions to bring buffalo back to what to it's former glory? I'm sick and tired of worrying about whether my car is going to get stripped when I park at the HSBC center. Why not make a topic on it and go from there?


Oh a fall in the dollar wouldnt even be necessary (though it could be managed) if we could stop other countries from manipulating their exchange rates and our own country from allowing tax exemptions to off-shore and outsource jobs and industries.

Timmy, this is utterly retarded that you don't get it. Go back and read my sources I've posted on this. I've done it atleast a dosen times. Unemployment is lower than before 9/11 and the stock market is booming! What do you smoke to realize that we're hard done by for outsourcing? Hundreds of thousands of jobs are produced each MONTH in this country in many different sectors. If you are worried about the Unemployed why don't you tell them to get off their bums and look for jobs in their area and In other maybe more distant areas. Some cities are booming, others are busting. It has happened like this since the birth of a commodities economy (since we as a species started living in large communities). Do you enjoy your cheap consumer goods? Talk about socialism, do you want soap to be 30 dollars a pack to support US workers? I bet you wouldn't buy a US produced product even if it was a dollar more than it's competitor.
What I find utterly paradoxical is that you talk about Lowering the value of the FEDERAL CURRENCY to bring back Business to A CITY THAT SHOULD BE MANAGED BY THE STATE. Do you realize how pathetic that sounds? It still wouldn't solve the problem of Social Security anyways. You need workers in the system in order to pay into payroll taxes to support the elderly. Remember, the Social Security well will be dry by 2029 even if they lower the currency because the interest rate will have to be increased in order to protect against inflation.

All of which is a huge reason I dont respond to your posts...your like Linda_D, you think you know everything when infact you know very little.

No... You don't respond to my posts because I give you an ear lashing and the only thing you can respond with is lame excuses and jewish conspiracy theories. If you had sufficient language skills you would have summed up your statement by calling me dogmatic.

[Linda_D]

Since you're unwilling to make even a de minimus effort, I'm going to save us both a lot of time.
Off to ignore you go, to join WSJ.

You should ignore your credit card debt. It might go away too.. "chuckle!"

Count yourself in good company, Goodolefriend. WSJ is WestsideJohn, a poster who has good ideas that Biker doesn't like. :D

[tomac]

Unemployment in this country sits at 4.5% which is one of the lowest in the World!

If you believe that figure then you're an even bigger dope than biker had you pegged for.
The government has been consistantly lying about unemployment rates ever since the days of Reagan. He did it (ignored those off unemployment and on welfare and counted those in the military) to show everybody how much greater he was than Jimmah Cahtah. Carter's stats were supposedly around 11% and within weeks of Reagan getting into office, they dropped to less than 5%
It's a miracle, I tells ya, a miracle!
And all government bu!!*****!
This country has had it rough since 1972. We had:
Nixon - a conniving liar
Ford - a political insider (he was J.Edgar's point man on the Warren Commission)
Carter - a good man and a terrible president
Reagan - a senile clown and tool for the monied class
Bush Sr. - former head of the CIA and someone who happily did business with America's enemies in the Middle East.
Clinton - philandering sneak who wanted my money to fund his schemes.
Bush Jr. - professional idiot and stand-in for the Alfred E. Newman character in Mad Magazine.

:mad:

[Joe Buff]

If you believe that figure then you're an even bigger dope than biker had you pegged for.
The government has been consistantly lying about unemployment rates ever since the days of Reagan. He did it (ignored those off unemployment and on welfare and counted those in the military) to show everybody how much greater he was than Jimmah Cahtah. Carter's stats were supposedly around 11% and within weeks of Reagan getting into office, they dropped to less than 5%
It's a miracle, I tells ya, a miracle!
And all government bu!!*****!
This country has had it rough since 1972. We had:
Nixon - a conniving liar
Ford - a political insider (he was J.Edgar's point man on the Warren Commission)
Carter - a good man and a terrible president
Reagan - a senile clown and tool for the monied class
Bush Sr. - former head of the CIA and someone who happily did business with America's enemies in the Middle East.
Clinton - philandering sneak who wanted my money to fund his schemes.
Bush Jr. - professional idiot and stand-in for the Alfred E. Newman character in Mad Magazine.:mad:
http://wrestofthestory.evecommunity.com/groupee_files/photo_albums/3/9/8/3981027512/3591011322_456E0C0381EAF6A9956ABE2F4FD40C95.gif I don't know whether to laugh or cry! Your comments on our presidents over the past 35 years or so strikes me as "right on", although people who weren't alive (in some sense or other) over that period of time, might have trouble filling in the details. It is pathetic to think that the Great Power of the Free World has been led by such clowns. It is sad that we couldn't have done better by and for ourselves. And if you took the list back a few more generations, you wouldn't find very much about most of them to write home about; but they have all been good fodder for the stand-ups!

Actually, the government's lying about unemployment rates is but a small part of the "disingenuousness" (i.e., lying) that is our government's stock and trade. Their main job seems to be treating us as mushrooms--and you know what that means. Social Security funds have long been used to balance the budget artificially, though even that ploy has failed of late in light of the Republican "no-new-taxes + spend-like-a-drunken-sailor" policy. Using SS funds for poor Mexicans would at least be a more honest use of the money than what they have been doing with it for a great many years. If the USA were a corporation, every one of those clowns and their cronies would have been slapped into the slammer for misuse of pension funds. But, hey! This is your Federal Government at work. It doesn't have to make sense. It doesn't have to be honest. It doesn't even have to work.

[Cgoodsp466]

Those in favor of allowing corrupt and imprisoned congressional members to gain pensions paid for by the tax payer, say Aye.



The problem with social security isn't the Liberals subsidizing of mexican workers but OUR HUGE aging population and our extremely low tax rate. In comparison the mexican migrants that do reap the benefits are only a drop in the bucket to the flood of the aging class and Americans already on assistence. The blame should be put on the Republicans for refusing to raise taxes in congress over the last 12 years to lower the hurt on the Social Security system. As a result there is already forecasts from economists that our Children will be feeling the hurt from higher taxes to take care for all the retirees.

The Liberals feel that we should now be responsible for the "poor and old people in Mexico"

I don't think so. I think the Liberals are looking after the best interest of the nation. Considering they have only really been in congressional power for about 8 hours, I don't think anyone should really be judging what they are responsible for. We haven't even seen what they will put foreword on the first 100 hours yet!
However, they are looking like they are looking after the best interest of the nation. They've made congress transparent by putting foreword a bill to drastically lower the the power of lobbeying and gifts that can be recieved. How long have the Republicans been riding the Lobby Gravy Train?
Looks like they are trying to put something together to raise minimum wage to 7.50 an hour which would be excellent for the working poor.


To qualify for American Social Security, a illegal Mexican citizen would need
to work in the United States just 18 months! How about that, a real US citizen will need to work 10 years to qualify for Social Security.

Where do you get this from? Not that it matters, I think it's an excellent Idea! It forces the Illegals to PAY INTO THE SYSTEM. Which means that Jose and Juan will be supporting your Mommy or yourself who is on medicaid. What you pay into the system isn't what you reap Lack. When you pay into social security you're paying for everyone who is already collecting their SS cheques.


With the additional financial drain on Social Security one wonders where the funds will come from to pay for this plan.

Yea, the Drain on the system from the 70+ Million Americans of the Baby Boom who are retiring in the next 10-15 years and collecting SS from the system.

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/2001/cb01cn184.html
http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/p20-546.pdf


Maybe the government will lower the benefits that will be paid out or the fund will just go bankrupt.

OR! They can increase immigration into this country to support the aging population.


Screw the wetbacks and the countrys reputation.I care only about me.Make the boarder a free fire zone.

[run4it]

If you believe that figure then you're an even bigger dope than biker had you pegged for.
The government has been consistantly lying about unemployment rates ever since the days of Reagan. He did it (ignored those off unemployment and on welfare and counted those in the military) to show everybody how much greater he was than Jimmah Cahtah. Carter's stats were supposedly around 11% and within weeks of Reagan getting into office, they dropped to less than 5%
It's a miracle, I tells ya, a miracle!
And all government bu!!*****!
This country has had it rough since 1972. We had:
Nixon - a conniving liar
Ford - a political insider (he was J.Edgar's point man on the Warren Commission)
Carter - a good man and a terrible president
Reagan - a senile clown and tool for the monied class
Bush Sr. - former head of the CIA and someone who happily did business with America's enemies in the Middle East.
Clinton - philandering sneak who wanted my money to fund his schemes.
Bush Jr. - professional idiot and stand-in for the Alfred E. Newman character in Mad Magazine.

[/CENTER]

Now THAT'S MY 85 point post!!!! You know, I'll even bump you up to a 90 for good measure!
And a product of public schools, no less....

[biker]

Carter's stats were supposedly around 11% and within weeks of Reagan getting into office, they dropped to less than 5%
It's a miracle, I tells ya, a miracle!
.

:mad:

"It's BS, I tells ya, BS".

You're gonna have to back that one up with a gubmint citation, because that never happened.

From 1981 through 1983, we suffered through a brutal recession and Reagan had the courage to continue encouraging Volcker to wring out inflation, the scourge of our economy. Although it cost Reagan dearly in opinion polls as unemployment climbed precipitously.

You might remember things more clearly if the coddled public sector employees had to suffer the same type of 10+ unemployment rates as did my fellow private sector employees.

As Thomas Jefferson said, "The roots of the tree of Liberty should be nourished with the blood of public sector employees once a generation."

Has a nice ring to it, no?

[tomac]

http://wrestofthestory.evecommunity.com/groupee_files/photo_albums/3/9/8/3981027512/3591011322_456E0C0381EAF6A9956ABE2F4FD40C95.gif I don't know whether to laugh or cry! Your comments on our presidents over the past 35 years or so strikes me as "right on", although people who weren't alive (in some sense or other) over that period of time, might have trouble filling in the details. It is pathetic to think that the Great Power of the Free World has been led by such clowns. It is sad that we couldn't have done better by and for ourselves. And if you took the list back a few more generations, you wouldn't find very much about most of them to write home about; but they have all been good fodder for the stand-ups!

Actually, the government's lying about unemployment rates is but a small part of the "disingenuousness" (i.e., lying) that is our government's stock and trade. Their main job seems to be treating us as mushrooms--and you know what that means. Social Security funds have long been used to balance the budget artificially, though even that ploy has failed of late in light of the Republican "no-new-taxes + spend-like-a-drunken-sailor" policy. Using SS funds for poor Mexicans would at least be a more honest use of the money than what they have been doing with it for a great many years. If the USA were a corporation, every one of those clowns and their cronies would have been slapped into the slammer for misuse of pension funds. But, hey! This is your Federal Government at work. It doesn't have to make sense. It doesn't have to be honest. It doesn't even have to work.

Thanks ever so much for the morphing presichimp! I was laughing so hard I almost spilled my coffee on the computer.

:D

[tomac]

Now THAT'S MY 85 point post!!!! You know, I'll even bump you up to a 90 for good measure!
And a product of public schools, no less....

Catholic parochial school, actually, followed by public high school, and a lifetime certificate from the School of Hard Knocks....

:rolleyes:

[DR_GONZO]

take a look at how the Ole Soviet Union worked out. Their downfall was from lack of trade and only a trickle for immigration.

Am I the only one alarmed at what the 'Ole Soviet Union' has become? Looking at mother Russia now, they have revised and revamped their empire to finally get the funds needed to finish what they started. One could say downfall where I would say watch out! Bush's buddy, Putin is blowing smoke up everyone's behind. He's old school KGB. They had but one goal, eliminate the U.S.A. and our global influence. He still carries that sentiment. Controlling Europe with oil and it's pricing, Russia is not dumb and far from a fallen super power.

[biker]

You're gonna have to back that one up with a gubmint citation, because that never happened.

From 1981 through 1983, we suffered through a brutal recession and Reagan had the courage to continue encouraging Volcker to wring out inflation, the scourge of our economy. Although it cost Reagan dearly in opinion polls as unemployment climbed precipitously.

Still waiting, tomac.

I know you get the notifications.

So you mean you've sunk to the low level of the Wrona School of Outright Lying.

I've been willing to play along with your "I'm a true blue Republican who thinks like a Democrat cause I was brainwashed to think like a socialist cause I was trapped for 35 years as a public employee " line.

But now you think it's okey dokey to blurt out blatant lies and not support them?

Next you'll be sporting a "Kucinich for Pres." button.

[biker]

And a product of public schools, no less....

Just because someone hates the last 35 years of American Presidents---and especially the Republican Presidents---, is in favor of ever larger government roles and thinks public employees are boffo doesn't mean they are public school graduates.

I am living proof of the opposite.

I'm a public school graduate. Primary, secondary and college. I was the class that first enjoyed the fruits of "Brown vs Topeka Board of Education."

I hate government, outside of the brave warriors in the military who defend us.

I believe most gubmint programs are worse than a waste of money; experience has shown they excacerbate the problems they were envisioned to solve.

(The Tennessee Valley Authority of FDR offered to buy the property of farmers who were to be displaced. Most of the farmers displaced were tenant farmers who didn't own their land. They were merely brushed aside. "Can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs", as activists Democrats would say.")

I put myself through college.

I believe in the Protestant work ethic.

I think rich people should be entitled to keep their private wealth. Enterprising workers will simply take it from their lazy, debauched descendants.

The people of the United States need to severely prune all levels of government from time to time. Sort of like a controlled burn in a forest.

So much for products of public schools.

[Goodolefriend]

Am I the only one alarmed at what the 'Ole Soviet Union' has become? Looking at mother Russia now, they have revised and revamped their empire to finally get the funds needed to finish what they started. One could say downfall where I would say watch out! Bush's buddy, Putin is blowing smoke up everyone's behind. He's old school KGB. They had but one goal, eliminate the U.S.A. and our global influence. He still carries that sentiment. Controlling Europe with oil and it's pricing, Russia is not dumb and far from a fallen super power.




Russia's playing the Oil card because it's in their best interest my friend. We would be doing the same thing if we had an inelastic product that we could export. Anything else you want to tell us about the Russian Federation?

What you should be afraid of in Russia is the growing fascist policies that the government is supporting. I don't know what is sillier to watch; the growing skin head population in russian youth, or the russian police arresting Georgians who have proper visas. All really ironic that russians died by the millions to defeat the fascists 60 years ago.

[Goodolefriend]

Still waiting, tomac.

I know you get the notifications.

So you mean you've sunk to the low level of the Wrona School of Outright Lying.

I've been willing to play along with your "I'm a true blue Republican who thinks like a Democrat cause I was brainwashed to think like a socialist cause I was trapped for 35 years as a public employee " line.

But now you think it's okey dokey to blurt out blatant lies and not support them?

Next you'll be sporting a "Kucinich for Pres." button.

For once, I think we have something to agree on Biker.

[TheRightView]

Ike- lousy lucky general, but your typical war hero president
Kennedy- philandering opportunist but cut down in his prime and possible could have done some good
Johnson- msitake from the get go
Nixon - a conniving liar; that he may have been; but brilliant in foriegn affairs and only president to come clean with finances(ie. checkers speech)
Ford - a political insider (he was J.Edgar's point man on the Warren Commission), and stil a good honest man...a ford, not a lincoln.
Carter - a good man and a terrible president
Reagan - a senile charismatic clown and tool for the monied class
Bush Sr. - former head of the CIA and someone who happily did business with America's enemies in the Middle East.
Clinton - philandering sneak who wanted my money to fund his schemes.
Bush Jr. - professional idiot and stand-in for the Alfred E. Newman character in Mad Magazine.

[boomeriam]

Maybe not.

The 6 million young US citizens adults of the 70 million retirees would be working versus the immigrants from mexico.

People tend to forget that the United States citizens should always come first.



Thank you Res. The U.S. Citizen should always come first !! Many people forget this when they cry for these people that invade us. We give the house away to illeagls and legals coming to this Country. The illeagls crush our hospitals who cant afford to take them because they dont pay and have no insurance. Free health care for them , not for us because we pick up the tab in lost jobs of U.S. citizens. They dont pay Taxes such as S.S. The legals come to this country jump right on the Medicaid bandwagon, free everything.They are exempt from federal taxes for 5 years.They should have a sponsor when they come to this country to pay for everything so the taxpayer does not have to.

[biker]

Thank you Res. The U.S. Citizen should always come first !! Many people forget this when they cry for these people that invade us. We give the house away to illeagls and legals coming to this Country. The illeagls crush our hospitals who cant afford to take them because they dont pay and have no insurance. Free health care for them , not for us because we pick up the tab in lost jobs of U.S. citizens. They dont pay Taxes such as S.S. The legals come to this country jump right on the Medicaid bandwagon, free everything.They are exempt from federal taxes for 5 years.They should have a sponsor when they come to this country to pay for everything so the taxpayer does not have to.

Is this right, boomeriam? I've never heard anything like this before. Or anything as outrageous.

It seems to be at odds with the government's reluctance in granting visas if the job the prospective immigrant was after could be filled by an American. (Same policy followed by Canada.)

Do you have any links to somewhere I could read more about this?

TIA.

[Linda_D]

Is this right, boomeriam? I've never heard anything like this before. Or anything as outrageous.

It seems to be at odds with the government's reluctance in granting visas if the job the prospective immigrant was after could be filled by an American. (Same policy followed by Canada.)

Do you have any links to somewhere I could read more about this?

TIA.

I think bommeranian is got into the "good stuff" while home alone.

Legal immigrants either have to have skills in need in the US or they have to have family/friends to "sponsor" them, ie be financially responsible for them. I'm not sure how many years that responsibility lasts, but it's for more than a few months, so the taxpayers aren't paying for legal immigrants.

Legal immigrants aren't exempted from paying taxes either. Check your tax bulletin that came recently. Where doesn't it have an exemption for immigrants? Nobody works legally in this country unless you have SS number, and immigrants can't work legally without a) SSN and b) work permit (green card).

[boomeriam]

I think bommeranian is got into the "good stuff" while home alone.

Legal immigrants either have to have skills in need in the US or they have to have family/friends to "sponsor" them, ie be financially responsible for them. I'm not sure how many years that responsibility lasts, but it's for more than a few months, so the taxpayers aren't paying for legal immigrants.



Linda if want some of the good stuff ,just ask , I would share. You did not seem to get the meaning of my post on sponors for the legals. Yes they have to have a sponsor to come here, and the responsibility for them is a lot less than you think. They must make sure they are housed ,fed and have medical coverage. Now this is where you and I pay for it ------MEDICAID--------. Maybe you should check this link out.www.cms.hhs.gov/MedicaidGenInfo/. I feel the sponsor should pick up the total bill for everything not the taxpayer. So Linda when a church sponsors a bunch of legals do you think the foot the bill? No!!!! They pass them a report on how to get all the freebies such as , let me see, -------------MEDICAID-------------- housing, food stamps, and medical coverage.I have worked with some doctors in the past who bring over family from who knows where and sponsor them. Now I will give you one guess who pays for them living here. Times up ---------MEDICAID--------. I hope you see a pattern here. I will be awaiting your reply along with my friends Elvis, J.F.K. and Steve the crock hunter. Aw come on Elvis dont hog all the drugs:D

[biker]

I don't think Linda should be accusing anyone else of dipping into the good stuff, when she posts something like: Check your tax bulletin that came recently. Where doesn't it have an exemption for immigrants?

You want a do-over on that one, Linda?

As to Boomerian's subsequent post, it is not so black and white as his first. It has the ring of truth to it.

I attended a conference in the early seventies where one of the social activists gave a presentation on her "education" program. Where she went door to door, giving instructions to needy and deserving folks (she could discern this just by looking at them.) how to apply for welfare, food stamps, heating assistance, Medicaid, etc. She was a walking storehouse of knowledge on how to get stuff out of the welfare state.

I don't recall her having anything about how to apply for a library card or applications to attend ECC.

I thought, "This is nuts." (This was one of the helpful guideposts that set me on the path to being a responsible, independent, intelligent conservative from my beginnings as a mushy-headed bleeding-heart liberal.)


So Boomerian's contentions sound true to me.

[Goodolefriend]

Linda if want some of the good stuff ,just ask , I would share. You did not seem to get the meaning of my post on sponors for the legals. Yes they have to have a sponsor to come here, and the responsibility for them is a lot less than you think. They must make sure they are housed ,fed and have medical coverage. Now this is where you and I pay for it ------MEDICAID--------. Maybe you should check this link out.www.cms.hhs.gov/MedicaidGenInfo/. I feel the sponsor should pick up the total bill for everything not the taxpayer. So Linda when a church sponsors a bunch of legals do you think the foot the bill? No!!!! They pass them a report on how to get all the freebies such as , let me see, -------------MEDICAID-------------- housing, food stamps, and medical coverage.I have worked with some doctors in the past who bring over family from who knows where and sponsor them. Now I will give you one guess who pays for them living here. Times up ---------MEDICAID--------. I hope you see a pattern here. I will be awaiting your reply along with my friends Elvis, J.F.K. and Steve the crock hunter. Aw come on Elvis dont hog all the drugs:D


Hey Boomerhead. I think you should read up on Medicaid before you talk bud. Why don't you find out how you qualify for it? It varies widely from state to state! Sadly, your general information doesn't cover any of the requirements.

but here's a a hint, you need to make less than 7,000 a year to qualify in the State of New York. Meaning if you have over 2,000 in expendable income you're cut from the strings of the system.
http://www.health.state.ny.us/health_care/medicaid/#qualify
http://www.health.state.ny.us/health_care/medicaid/reference/mrg/income.pdf
http://www.hrsa.gov/reimbursement/states/Indiana-Eligibility.htm

Michigan
"What Are The Basic Requirements To Qualify For Medicaid?

You reside in a Medicaid qualified nursing home under a doctor's order
Your medical and nursing home expenses exceed your income

Your countable assets do not exceed $2,000"

http://courts.co.calhoun.mi.us/book013.htm


You can take a spin on all these sites. Interesting that there is no mention of Legal immigrants being privy to the system... maybe it's because they aren't and you're dreamin something heavy. They can qualify for the system for 5 if they fit the requirements which happen to immigrants sometimes. You know, refugees (those people that flee and seek another country because their life is in danger) , that don't have housing, income, or a sponsor family.
If you want to cut medicaid from refugees be my guest. I'm sure your request will fall on deaf ears... Once these people do get on their feet they aren't looking for hand outs like our American unemployed friends who try and claim workers comp.


You don't have a clue what you're talking about.. I suggest you sit down and let the grown ups carry on with a rational debate. Maybe you'll learn a thing or two.

[boomeriam]

Hey Boomerhead. I think you should read up on Medicaid before you talk bud. Why don't you find out how you qualify for it? It varies widely from state to state! Sadly, your general information doesn't cover any of the requirements.

but here's a a hint, you need to make less than 7,000 a year to qualify in the State of New York. Meaning if you have over 2,000 in expendable income you're cut from the strings of the system.
Your countable assets do not exceed $2,000"




You can take a spin on all these sites. Interesting that there is no mention of Legal immigrants being privy to the system... maybe it's because they aren't and you're dreamin something heavy.
You don't have a clue what you're talking about.. I suggest you sit down and let the grown ups carry on with a rational debate. Maybe you'll learn a thing or two.

Guess you woke up on the wrong side of the bed or your just not getting any.:D Read this: Medicaid is available only to certain low-income individuals and families who fit into an eligibility group that is recognized by federal and state law. Medicaid does not pay money to you; instead, it sends payments directly to your health care providers. Depending on your state's rules, you may also be asked to pay a small part of the cost (co-payment) for some medical services. ("Medicaid At-A-Glance 2005" may be downloaded from the bottom of the page.)

Medicaid is a state administered program and each state sets its own guidelines regarding eligibility and services. Read more about your state Medicaid program. (See Related Links inside CMS at the bottom of the page.)

Many groups of people are covered by Medicaid. Even within these groups, though, certain requirements must be met. These may include your age, whether you are pregnant, disabled, blind, or aged; your income and resources (like bank accounts, real property, or other items that can be sold for cash); and whether you are a U.S. citizen or a lawfully admitted immigrant. The rules for counting your income and resources vary from state to state and from group to group. There are special rules for those who live in nursing homes and for disabled children living at home.

Your child may be eligible for coverage if he or she is a U.S. citizen or a lawfully admitted immigrant, even if you are not (however, there is a 5-year limit that applies to lawful permanent residents). Eligibility for children is based on the child's status, not the parent's. Also, if someone else's child lives with you, the child may be eligible even if you are not because your income and resources will not count for the child.

In general, you should apply for Medicaid if your income is low and you match one of the descriptions of the Eligibility Groups. (Even if you are not sure whether you qualify, if you or someone in your family needs health care, you should apply for Medicaid and have a qualified caseworker in your state evaluate your situation.)

Guess you did not read the link very well:eek: And as to the income limits 7.00 an hour x about 36 hours a week puts them under does it not? You are allowed up to 3200.00 in bank before you are not eligible.Now back to sponsors, all they are required to do is make sure the people have a roof over their head, food and medical coverage. --------MEDICAID--------. If you dont believe hot sheets on how and when to get the freebies as Biker posted after me are given out then you must have gotten into my good stuff. You only picked 1 state out of fifty to say I was wrong. You only have 48 to go.And if you cant refrain from calling someone else a child, then go back into your hole and hibernate for the rest of the winter:D Oh by the way Linda I'm still waiting for your reply in my smoke filled room. Ah sh*t J.F.K. is smoking it now.:D

[boomeriam]

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.. I suggest you sit down and let the grown ups carry on with a rational debate. Maybe you'll learn a thing or two.

I think you called me a child with this statment , if not my apologies.

[Goodolefriend]

Guess you woke up on the wrong side of the bed or your just not getting any.:D Read this: Medicaid is available only to certain low-income individuals and families who fit into an eligibility group that is recognized by federal and state law. Medicaid does not pay money to you; instead, it sends payments directly to your health care providers. Depending on your state's rules, you may also be asked to pay a small part of the cost (co-payment) for some medical services. ("Medicaid At-A-Glance 2005" may be downloaded from the bottom of the page.)

Medicaid is a state administered program and each state sets its own guidelines regarding eligibility and services. Read more about your state Medicaid program. (See Related Links inside CMS at the bottom of the page.)

Many groups of people are covered by Medicaid. Even within these groups, though, certain requirements must be met. These may include your age, whether you are pregnant, disabled, blind, or aged; your income and resources (like bank accounts, real property, or other items that can be sold for cash); and whether you are a U.S. citizen or a lawfully admitted immigrant. The rules for counting your income and resources vary from state to state and from group to group. There are special rules for those who live in nursing homes and for disabled children living at home.

Your child may be eligible for coverage if he or she is a U.S. citizen or a lawfully admitted immigrant, even if you are not (however, there is a 5-year limit that applies to lawful permanent residents). Eligibility for children is based on the child's status, not the parent's. Also, if someone else's child lives with you, the child may be eligible even if you are not because your income and resources will not count for the child.

In general, you should apply for Medicaid if your income is low and you match one of the descriptions of the Eligibility Groups. (Even if you are not sure whether you qualify, if you or someone in your family needs health care, you should apply for Medicaid and have a qualified caseworker in your state evaluate your situation.)

Guess you did not read the link very well:eek: And as to the income limits 7.00 an hour x about 36 hours a week puts them under does it not? You are allowed up to 3200.00 in bank before you are not eligible.Now back to sponsors, all they are required to do is make sure the people have a roof over their head, food and medical coverage. --------MEDICAID--------. If you dont believe hot sheets on how and when to get the freebies as Biker posted after me are given out then you must have gotten into my good stuff. You only picked 1 state out of fifty to say I was wrong. You only have 48 to go.And if you cant refrain from calling someone else a child, then go back into your hole and hibernate for the rest of the winter:D Oh by the way Linda I'm still waiting for your reply in my smoke filled room. Ah sh*t J.F.K. is smoking it now.:D

You are a moron plain and simple.

1. I used three states, check the links before you yap, you tool! I could easily draw from the others because they all have PRIMARILY THE SAME SYSTEM. Look them up yourself, you might be pleasently surprised how stupid you actually are.
2. Applying for Medicaid doesn't mean that you will recieve medicaid, you idiot. They take a look at all of resources and require a number of different things. SS, bank statement, pay stub, etc. You find me a single place where it states the Immigrants get Access to the System automatically without applying.
3. You don't even understand your own article! Your child may be eligible for coverage if he or she is a U.S. citizen or a lawfully admitted immigrant, even if you are not (however, there is a 5-year limit that applies to lawful permanent residents). Read this a couple of times, it might finally click in. Oh! Why don't I break it down for you because that light bulb over your head blew out a long time ago. Basically what they are saying is that Legal immigrants ARE ABLE TO APPLY FOR THE SYSTEM. This DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY ARE GRANTED THE USE OF MEDICAID. THEY STILL NEED TO FIT THE OTHER QUALIFICATIONS! Do you not understand this? Do I need to make some flow charts or get some silly puddy to explain?
4.Permenant Residents only get use of the system for 5 years, IF THEY QUALIFY. They still have to fit the other guidelines. If you haven't read the federal guidelines you have to be below the poverty line in order to get assistence. This isn't a free hand out system, you moron. If that was the case we wouldn't have 40 million americans without medical insurance.

[Goodolefriend]

I think you called me a child with this statment , if not my apologies.


Yes, I did. You don't even understand your own link! Which makes you either a naive child, or a mentally handicapped adult. Your choice.

[Linda_D]

I don't think Linda should be accusing anyone else of dipping into the good stuff, when she posts something like:

You want a do-over on that one, Linda?

As to Boomerian's subsequent post, it is not so black and white as his first. It has the ring of truth to it.

I attended a conference in the early seventies where one of the social activists gave a presentation on her "education" program. Where she went door to door, giving instructions to needy and deserving folks (she could discern this just by looking at them.) how to apply for welfare, food stamps, heating assistance, Medicaid, etc. She was a walking storehouse of knowledge on how to get stuff out of the welfare state.

I don't recall her having anything about how to apply for a library card or applications to attend ECC.

I thought, "This is nuts." (This was one of the helpful guideposts that set me on the path to being a responsible, independent, intelligent conservative from my beginnings as a mushy-headed bleeding-heart liberal.)


So Boomerian's contentions sound true to me.

Just for you, biker, a do-over:

Legal immigrants aren't exempted from paying taxes either. Check your tax bulletin that came recently. Where does it have an exemption for immigrants? Nobody works legally in this country unless you have SS number, and immigrants can't work legally without a) SSN and b) work permit (green card).

[Linda_D]

Linda if want some of the good stuff ,just ask , I would share. You did not seem to get the meaning of my post on sponors for the legals. Yes they have to have a sponsor to come here, and the responsibility for them is a lot less than you think. They must make sure they are housed ,fed and have medical coverage. Now this is where you and I pay for it ------MEDICAID--------. Maybe you should check this link out.www.cms.hhs.gov/MedicaidGenInfo/ (http://www.cms.hhs.gov/MedicaidGenInfo/). I feel the sponsor should pick up the total bill for everything not the taxpayer. So Linda when a church sponsors a bunch of legals do you think the foot the bill? No!!!! They pass them a report on how to get all the freebies such as , let me see, -------------MEDICAID-------------- housing, food stamps, and medical coverage.I have worked with some doctors in the past who bring over family from who knows where and sponsor them. Now I will give you one guess who pays for them living here. Times up ---------MEDICAID--------. I hope you see a pattern here. I will be awaiting your reply along with my friends Elvis, J.F.K. and Steve the crock hunter. Aw come on Elvis dont hog all the drugs:D

I think Goodolefriend has pretty well lessoned you about Medicaid, cretin.

[Timmy]

when it comes to medicaid and immigration, I agree w/goodolefriend

its one of the few we can agree on

[boomeriam]

You are a moron plain and simple.

1. I used three states, check the links before you yap, you tool! I could easily draw from the others because they all have PRIMARILY THE SAME SYSTEM. Look them up yourself, you might be pleasently surprised how stupid you actually are.
2. Applying for Medicaid doesn't mean that you will recieve medicaid, you idiot. They take a look at all of resources and require a number of different things. SS, bank statement, pay stub, etc. You find me a single place where it states the Immigrants get Access to the System automatically without applying.
3. You don't even understand your own article! Your child may be eligible for coverage if he or she is a U.S. citizen or a lawfully admitted immigrant, even if you are not (however, there is a 5-year limit that applies to lawful permanent residents). Read this a couple of times, it might finally click in. Oh! Why don't I break it down for you because that light bulb over your head blew out a long time ago. Basically what they are saying is that Legal immigrants ARE ABLE TO APPLY FOR THE SYSTEM. This DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY ARE GRANTED THE USE OF MEDICAID. THEY STILL NEED TO FIT THE OTHER QUALIFICATIONS! Do you not understand this? Do I need to make some flow charts or get some silly puddy to explain?
4.Permenant Residents only get use of the system for 5 years, IF THEY QUALIFY. They still have to fit the other guidelines. If you haven't read the federal guidelines you have to be below the poverty line in order to get assistence. This isn't a free hand out system, you moron. If that was the case we wouldn't have 40 million americans without medical insurance.

Why so much anger that you have to do a personal attack? You may need to up your meds . Did I go after you in such a violent manner? You call me a child yet your the one acting like one with your hate! You make no sense in your reply.Of course you have to apply.Second, anyone can apply, but that does not mean that they qualify. Staying below the wage guideline is not so hard if you decide to work at the 7.00 an hour or so minimum wage. You could work up to appox. 30 hours a week and still be able to collect.And as for a bank account, these people dont have one because they know it can be used against them. Thats why places charge 20.00 to cash checks downtown.It is a free hand out system if you know how to bilk it.I deal with it every day. Examples: 20 year old male or female comes into my office and wants to know if we take Medicaid, They look to be in perfect health. I wonder why this person needs Medicaid? Maybe they want to bilk the system and not pick up more hours at work, or not want to work a second job.Example #2 . Student from U.B that is from another country, come into the office wants to know if we take Medicaid. Now they get Medicaid because they are here for education purposes. Being students they typically dont have any resources. I am sure they were schooled on how to go on the system as soon as they got here. These examples take place about 10-12 times a day.True we have 40 million with no health care, most may be too proud to go on system, A lot make just over the minimum to qualify.The whole point to my post was that if you come here to live and have a sponsor, the sponsor should take care of all expenses and not the taxpayer.Simple as that.Oh by the way Linda , if you have to call me names and cant defend your position , dont post!!! Steve get your crock out of my house and stay out of my stash! Bilmy!!!!
http://www.bigjoint.org

[Linda_D]

Your vocabulary is about as large as your familiarity with the US tax code. If you don't like being called a cretin, then don't act like one.

[boomeriam]

Your vocabulary is about as large as your familiarity with the US tax code. If you don't like being called a cretin, then don't act like one.

Dont have any idea what your point is ? Still have not responded to my post.Well at least you got out from behind Good's skirt. Name calling is for children.Have a good life:)

[biker]

So far: point, match, set---Boomerian.

[Goodolefriend]

Dont have any idea what your point is ? Still have not responded to my post.Well at least you got out from behind Good's skirt. Name calling is for children.Have a good life:)


I'm sorry. You still haven't properly responded to any of my rebuttles. Why should I respond to your post when I've already answered them in detail?

Must I get some play dough and building blocks to help you understand the system?

[Linda_D]

I'm sorry. You still haven't properly responded to any of my rebuttles. Why should I respond to your post when I've already answered them in detail?

Must I get some play dough and building blocks to help you understand the system?

I think boomerbaby was responding to my calling him a cretin. He's doesn't know what it means and doesn't know how to find out, so he babbles.

[Timmy]

babies of illegals should not get US citizenship

[Timmy]

babies of illegals born in the US should not be given US citizenship

[Timmy]

Sponsors of illegal or legal immigrants should finance their healthcare,housing & job

You dont sponsor people and then through them in the hands of the US taxpayer

[Goodolefriend]

Sponsors of illegal or legal immigrants should finance their healthcare,housing & job

You dont sponsor people and then through them in the hands of the US taxpayer


Do you know anything about the law? Do you know the difference between an independent and a dependent individual?

Please, educate yourself before you make a fool out of yourself AGAIN timmy.

Your opinion is great, however it is just an opinion and a USELESS one at that. Thank goodness the law and societal regulations separate between stupidity and rights.

[Goodolefriend]

babies of illegals born in the US should not be given US citizenship


Too bad they are... and our great congress hasn't bothered to change the rules.

Your opinion is so un-American that I find it comical.

Timmy, are we an Old World Nation or a New World nation? I'll give you a hint... we're not of the Old World.

[boomeriam]

So far: point, match, set---Boomerian.

Thanks Biker. I am glad someone gets it. I try to post in simple terms and words so everyone understands. Sometimes it just goes over a couple of heads once in a while. And they call me a crackhead , child , cretin, blockhead and there was something else, must not be important, just like them.I think I spelled cretin or critter wrong , oh well I am a crackhead you know.


AND THIS MATCH IS IN THE BOOK.:)

[boomeriam]

Do you know anything about the law? Do you know the difference between an independent and a dependent individual?

Please, educate yourself before you make a fool out of yourself AGAIN timmy.

Your opinion is great, however it is just an opinion and a USELESS one at that. Thank goodness the law and societal regulations separate between stupidity and rights.

Look out Timmy your in his sights now:eek: Next thing you know you will be known as a crackhead just like me.:p

[Cgoodsp466]

Too bad they are... and our great congress hasn't bothered to change the rules.

Your opinion is so un-American that I find it comical.

Timmy, are we an Old World Nation or a New World nation? I'll give you a hint... we're not of the Old World.

The new world order sucks ! Kind of like you. Oh If I sound UN- American I could give a F.Turn the boarder in to a free fire zone.

[Goodolefriend]

Thanks Biker. I am glad someone gets it. I try to post in simple terms and words so everyone understands. Sometimes it just goes over a couple of heads once in a while. And they call me a crackhead , child , cretin, blockhead and there was something else, must not be important, just like them.I think I spelled cretin or critter wrong , oh well I am a crackhead you know.


AND THIS MATCH IS IN THE BOOK.:)


Thanks Boomerhead. Its common rubes (you) that don't realize that this is a zero sum game. There are no points, only pitiful rebuttals from fellows, like you, with little understanding of what they're talking about. I suggest you go back and take a look at the numerous sites that I have left for you to read up on. See for yourself whether there are any specific sections related to legal immigrants getting an advantage over a born and raised American. I suggest that if you really want to understand the system that you ask someone at your local state office. They will clear up without a doubt your reading comprehension problem when it comes to understanding the words on your site concerning permanent residents. You don’t even realize that you are misrepresenting your own source! I can’t really think of anything that you could do to ruin your credibility further. Perhaps, by continuing to type will do the trick.
These kinds of posts really bother me. It makes me think how terrible a nation this really is. We are a super power that has enormous power in the world and yet we have a large majority of the population that is neither informed of local laws or how the system works. I guess I shouldn’t really be surprised.

[Goodolefriend]

The new world order sucks ! Kind of like you. Oh If I sound UN- American I could give a F.Turn the boarder in to a free fire zone.


What new World order are you even talking about? I'm talking about NEW WORLD VS OLD WORLD NATIONS! (You know... old world: distinct culture, race, religion and language unique to that land. New World: no culture, no distinct race, religion, language, etc) This has nothing to do with Neoconservative bull jive.

You do sound unamerican; perhaps because you don't know what the f*ck you are talking about. No change there!

Turn the boarder in to a free fire zone.

Boarder:
Definition: One who boards, especially:
a. One who pays a stipulated sum in return for regular meals or for meals and lodging.
b. One who goes on board a vessel as part of an assault or military action: repel all boarders.

Do you want to try that one again? Turn the people going onto ships into a free fire zone? What exactly does that mean? Do you mean turn a tenant into a free fire zone? Do you even know what you're trying to say here? What is a free fire zone? And how does it apply to Boarders?

[tomac]

Still waiting, tomac.
I know you get the notifications.
So you mean you've sunk to the low level of the Wrona School of Outright Lying.
I've been willing to play along with your "I'm a true blue Republican who thinks like a Democrat cause I was brainwashed to think like a socialist cause I was trapped for 35 years as a public employee " line.
But now you think it's okey dokey to blurt out blatant lies and not support them?
Next you'll be sporting a "Kucinich for Pres." button.

I'm afraid you might be correct in this; the only site that I could find to cover my statement was a cite credited to Rush Limburger. He is somewhat disengenuous with regards to Carter and Reagan. I shouldn't have listened to Herr Goebbels so much back then.
Hey, speaking about Reagan, what do you think about Ford's comments about the former governor of California?
Specifically from an articl in today's News:
"It makes me very irritated when Reagan's people pound their chests and say that because we had this big military buildup, the Kremlin collapsed," Ford told the Grand Rapids Press.
The best president of his lifetime, Ford said, was a more moderate Republican: Dwight D. Eisenhower.
Harry Truman "would get very high marks" for his handling of foreign crises, Ford said. He also praised Richard Nixon as a foreign policy master, despite the Watergate scandal that drove him from office.
Ford considered John F. Kennedy overrated and Bill Clinton average. He admired George H.W. Bush's handling of the Persian Gulf War and had mixed opinions of Carter, who defeated Ford in 1976.
In 1981, Ford said: "I think Jimmy Carter would be very close to Warren G. Harding. I feel very strongly that Jimmy Carter was a disaster, particularly domestically and economically. I have said more than once that he was certainly the poorest president in my lifetime."
But two years later, he praised Carter's performance on the Panama Canal treaty, China and the Middle East. And in 1998, he said Carter "will be looked on as a better president than some comments we hear today."
"He was a very decent, fine individual," Ford told the newspaper.
According to the newspaper, Ford declined to rate George W. Bush, saying he did not know him well enough.
Ford said Reagan, who challenged him unsuccessfully for the GOP nomination in 1976, was "a great spokesman for attractive political objectives" such as a balanced budget and defeating communism, "but when it came to implementation, his record never matched his words."
Reagan was "probably the least well-informed on the details of running the government of any president I knew," Ford said. In a separate interview, he said Reagan "was just a poor manager, and you can't be president and do a good job unless you manage."

:)

[biker]

I'm afraid you might be correct in this; the only site that I could find to cover my statement was a cite credited to Rush Limburger. He is somewhat disengenuous with regards to Carter and Reagan. I shouldn't have listened to Herr Goebbels so much back then.



:)

So disingenuous, tomac. You'd rather chew glass than admit you ever listened to the Rushmeister, let alone quote him as a source in a SU post.

No, I think another you had a more direct response in reaction to my initial post to you: From 1981 through 1983, we suffered through a brutal recession and Reagan had the courage to continue encouraging Volcker to wring out inflation, the scourge of our economy. Although it cost Reagan dearly in opinion polls as unemployment climbed precipitously.

You might remember things more clearly if the coddled public sector employees had to suffer the same type of 10+ unemployment rates as did my fellow private sector employees.

As Thomas Jefferson said, "The roots of the tree of Liberty should be nourished with the blood of public sector employees once a generation."

Has a nice ring to it, no?


Your response should have been:

"You're right; I was lying. Only a lying POS would have claimed that Reagan's unemployment rate was 5% as compared to Carter's 11%. My post was a lie within a lie. Carter was an abject failure, as correctly characterized by Pres. Ford (in comments released only after his death, not during Carter's Presidency. Only Carter has stooped so low as to publicly and partisanly malign the actions of his successors while they were in office.).

Unemployment never reached down to 5% during the Presidency of Ronaldus Magnus (the greatest President of my life), although he strove mightily to remove the structural flaws by which Democrats caused both high inflation and high unemployment.

My entire viewpoint of life and times in WNY has been warped by a career surrounded by public sector parasites. I didn't want to be that way myself, but by osmosis I eventually became anti-conservative."

Anything else you might have said, tomac, would just have been lame dissembling.

On BBQ, however, you're still an outstanding source!!